Is it Art,,, or Stuff

[Whit]

Okay everbody,,, controversy here I'm sure,,, but,,,
is,,, what we as a community do,,, is it Art,,, or Stuff ???
Was the Mona Lisa out of love,,, or was it a commissioned
piece of work,,, and would that smile buy bread today ???
There are different opinions here,,, so let's hear'm !!!
We do this stuff because there's a drive to do it,,, but,,,
if we don't eat,,, we're starving artist,,, that puts our
work on the market,,, to exchange for the staples of life,,,
that (in my opinion) makes it "stuff" !!!
The Sistene Chapel was a commissioned work,,, but,,,
'ol Mich had to beg for his pay at times,, he did'nt quit
but still had to worry about getting paid for his "Stuff" !!!
Our "Stuff" is a commodity,,, a product,,, it may envoke a
feeling,, it may just decorate a room,,, it may be the final
touch of someone elses stuff,,, as a custom MC or Ford/Chev,,,
it's just what we do,,, it's our own lil commodity,,, our stuff !!!
This can get emotional because it's a personal thing !!!
Okay,,, lets hear your opinion on this,,, not the "Educated"
opinion but YOUR opinion !!!
(other than that,,, Have a Great Day !!!)

[Whit]

As an after thought,,,
What prompted the intrest you have in airbrush work ???
Was it the creative end,,, or the dollar end ???
Myself,,, it was the creative end,,, but I could see a market !!

[josie]

Hi Whit i dont understand everything u are saying ( my french takes over sometimes) But for me its definitly ART:)

I walked into a store 2 years ago going to bye stuff for my oil paintings and saw an airbrushed helmett there and i freaked out....had never heard of an airbrush before that day....1 month later i bought my 1st airbrush and compressor:)

[Steelhorse]

Everbody correct,, polémique ici je suis sûr,, mais,, est,, quel nous comme une communauté font,, est il art,, ou substance ? ? ? Est-ce que le Mona Lisa hors de l'amour,, ou il un morceau commissionné était était de travail,, et que le sourire achèterait-il le pain aujourd'hui ? ? ? Il y a différents avis ici,, ainsi laissez-nous hear'm ! ! ! Nous faisons cette substance parce qu'il y a une commande pour la faire,, mais,, si nous ne mangeons pas,, nous privons l'artiste de nourriture,, qui met notre travail sur le marché,, à l'échange pour les agrafes de la vie,, que (à mon avis) fait lui à "substance" ! ! ! La chapelle de Sistene était un travail commissionné,, mais,, l''ol Mich a dû le prier pour son salaire parfois, did'nt stoppé mais a dû s'inquiéter toujours d'obtenir payé sa "substance" ! ! ! Notre "substance" est un produit,, un produit,, il peut envoke un sentiment, il peut juste décorer une salle,, il peut être le contact final de quelqu'un substance d'elses,, comme MC fait sur commande ou Ford/Chev,, elle est au juste ce que nous faisons,, il est notre propre produit de lil,, notre substance ! ! ! Ceci peut obtenir émotif parce que c'est une chose personnelle ! ! ! L'ok,, laisse entendre votre avis sur ceci,, pas "a instruit" l'opinion mais VOTRE avis ! ! ! (autre que celui,, ayez un jour splendide ! ! !)


:book2:

Hey!!!! not fair talking to Josie in French!!!!!heheehe.....Damn...now I gonna have to get one of those translation programs!!!!!! lol

[Whit]

But,,, I,, I,,, uh,, I,,,
I love it when she talks dirty like that !!!:love:

[josie]

Hi Den ...you,re translator isnt right...i understood better in english than this french translation but thanks:wink2:

[Whit]

:wink2: told ya she was talkin dirty !!!
I jus knew it !!!:love:

[AirDave]

I just wanted to comment on the "art" question again...

I don't agree with all your comments (big surprise!)
but I have one personal view;

If you have to explain it to me, then to me it isn't art.

For me, art is anything on this planet that pleases the eye or the mind, entertains the soul or just invokes a response or emotion. The art of nature, music, books, a beautiful woman, a sexy car, a painting, a sculpture, a finely crafted piece of furniture, a view of the earth from the surface of the moon....

but a small red square in the middle of a large white canvas that represents "the overbearing weight of technological advances during the civil unrest in third world communist countries with limited electrical power during Oktoberfest celebrations..."

yeah okay...shut the f**k up!

[josie]

Sounds half chinese and half japanese Den...lol:wink2:

[Whit]

I just love it when ya talk dirty !!!:love:
-
I remember back in tha 50's when after MUCH
practice with a striping brush,,, was said,,,
"Man,,, That looks just like a decal",,,,,
at the time,,, I took it as a compliment,,,
later I began to resent it,,, after awhile it
just did'nt matter one way or another as
long as I was satisfied with the lines,,, okay !!!
Never really thought about it as Art,,, it was
just something (after MUCH practice) that I
could do,,, as opposed to others that did'nt
put the time and/or effort in cutting a good line...
When I first saw pinstriping,,, I knew I could
do it,,, I wanted to do it,,, I had to do it,,,
bad enough to practice,,, practice,,, practice !!!
All of a sudden (after MUCH practice) I found
there was a market for it,,, I could actually
make money doing stuff just like the stuff in
the little car magazines,,, Wahooo !!!
Got to where I could cut a good letter as well
as most that wanted pinstriping wanted a name
running down the side of their car,,, as well as
lil pictures to go with them !!!
Never thought about it as art,,, just something
I could do,,, "Stuff" !!!
Don't missunderstand,,, worked hard to learn it,,,
but it was either that or get a job:wink2:
Now I've got a computer that can consistently
cut a better letter than I can brush,,, but if the
power goes out,,, I've still got brushes,,, I can
still do my stuff,,, takes longer,,, but still can ,,,
The "Good Stuff",,, I show,,, (bad stuff I hide)
Now,,, after all tha ramblin,,,
Not what the dictionary says,,, but,,,
How Do You Look at Your Art/Stuff ???

[AirDave]

yawn
(I feel like I just read war and peace)

[AirDave]

You wrote a 2 page essay and I made a joke....
you remember jokes don't you?
(you used to throw 'em at me alot)

thats all there is here, D.
why do you keep asking me this?

now I do have a problem with you....

[Whit]

Actually a Good Answer Denise,,,
It shows what you feel for your work !!!
I guess I've just been around it so long
it just turns into stuff :goofy:

[AirDave]

First of all, Denise!!...
I happened to agree with your main concept!!
(I just got a kick out how much paper you used to explain it!
LOL ...a joke...take it easy will ya?!!!!!)

and with regards to your question "...all women in general you have a problem with????"
No
I don't care if you are a man or a woman, I'll treat you both with the same lack of respect!! (oh, sorry....I mean with the same respect!)

Lighten up Denise shoo-boobie-do-bedoo-boobie-doo-bo-doobie-boo-boobie...
(okay thats just stupid...)

I would like to post an excerpt from a journal entry that sorta links to what you said D;

"To me "art" is a creation (usually of humans, but nature is pretty good at it too) that doesn't require an explanation. The "art" pleases and invokes some kind of interest or emotion. A painting can do this, but so can a car or a movie or a fine meal or a scenic view. Screw you if you think you have have some godlike talent because you can "create art"!! Art is produced everyday and you are not that special!! ( sorry...I'll rag on egotistical artists another time!)

My Mother took a "China Painting" class. She now produced lovely little little "art" pieces that decorate her home and she gives as gifts. She takes blank "china" plates, bowls, cups, etc and using brushes and paste glazes, she paints flowers, wildlife and images on the pottery to be "fired". It takes patience, and concentration, and artistic talent and control to produce these wonderful little "art" pieces. They may not be DaVincis, and they may not be expensive to produce, but they are worthy of merit based on their quality, effort and look. But according to the "nose up each others asses" art community around here, my Mother was unable to enter some pieces in a local Gallery Contest because it wasn't considered "art". She was told that it wasn't recognized as being real "art".

These assholes wouldn't know real "art" if they had to produce it themselves! Which is exactly the first problem...they are all idiots when it comes to art, they can't draw or paint or sew or design a car...all they can do is pretend to be rich or important and attempt to create a private little community that they can pick and choose their members, and pretend to themselves that they are more important than anyone really cares! They try to tell me and others, what art is real "art" and what we should be liking or buying......f**k you......I will tell you what I like and what I want to look at.

I gotta go paint a rock....and throw it at an "art lover"..."


and Denise...go on painting and producing!...who cares if anyone thinks it is art or not...its what WE do!!

[Steelhorse]

Stuff or Art? Call it what you want? It's all in the "EYE" of the beholder...And if people want to pay big $$$$ for a circle within a square...or a stick man? I say! if it was "CREATED" by someone then it is art...their representation of what ever! The critic's will come and decide...someone will love it and buy it..others will hate it! It all boils down to each and everyone's "perception" in how they view what they see! Ex...see attachments!

Pic 1....FAT LADY BENDING OVER IN A TUB?

OR!!!!!!!!

Pic 2.... A LIGHTBULB?

ART?/STUFF?/OR JUST PERCEPTION? You decide, that's what makes us individuals!

Damn!!!!, Steel is just an Itsy bit Bitchy tonight....:wink2:

[AirDave]

okay...good attachment!!

re: your response....
"And if people want to pay big $$$$ for a..."
I think that is where you are wrong.
Its when the rest of us are judged against this "crap" that is showing up in galleries, and selling for ridiculous amounts.
Thats when the humble "artist" of any sort is not given the respect or consideration that is deserved.

[Steelhorse]

okay...good attachment!!

re: your response....
"And if people want to pay big $$$$ for a..."
I think that is where you are wrong.
Its when the rest of us are judged against this "crap" that is showing up in galleries, and selling for ridiculous amounts.
Thats when the humble "artist" of any sort is not given the respect or consideration that is deserved.

Dave, I know that my attachment ex....was an example of the crap that is being sold as "ART" out there....BUT!!! Now this will start another thread.....!!!!!!!. Lets say that I took these above Attachments to some "ABSTRACT" ....."ART"!!!!!! thingy-do....and I was dressed up in a tux, etc. Drinking Champagne, and eating Caviar!!!! Some high-ruffled up-ed ARSE, who inherited big $ would pay for it!!! right???!!!

Ya missed my point...I don't care about that!!!! Do you create art???? Yes, you do....Do I create art....Well I just made the fat ladie and the light bulb. It is still "ART" regardless of who say's it is or isn't!!!! Hehehehhee Get my point!!!!! I don't care who judges what I do....If I have an irritable-bowel attack, an spray a blast on some paper and call it "RUMBLINGS FROM WITHIN" Is it art?!!!!!! :wink2:

[AirDave]

I agree! you irritated bowel moving spray blaster!

but at the start of this thread were some comments about how airbrushers and some other artists were not considered real artists, or artists of any value, etc.

And this attitude is fostered by the "art world experts" who, in an effort to raise themselves above everyone else, judge what they think is "valuable" and "nonvaluable" art (usually whatever they own, or have the chance to own) and they use this power to build their own private club.

Sure, because I need the money, I would sell ice cubes to an Eskimo...but I would seriously reconsider doing anything that would separate me from the rest of the world's "artists".


Lets not argue the points...we both agree (but are focused on 2 different areas)...but I think we as "disposable" or "insignificant" art producers have to stick together and keep proving to the world that our work is as important and valuable as any other!

[Steelhorse]

I agree! you irritated bowel moving spray blaster!

but at the start of this thread were some comments about how airbrushers and some other artists were not considered real artists, or artists of any value, etc.

And this attitude is fostered by the "art world experts" who, in an effort to raise themselves above everyone else, judge what they think is "valuable" and "nonvaluable" art (usually whatever they own, or have the chance to own) and they use this power to build their own private club.

Sure, because I need the money, I would sell ice cubes to an Eskimo...but I would seriously reconsider doing anything that would separate me from the rest of the world's "artists".


Lets not argue the points...we both agree (but are focused on 2 different areas)...but I think we as "disposable" or "insignificant" art producers have to stick together and keep proving to the world that our work is as important and valuable as any other!

It is all in how you market it Dave.....Network....Network...Network...Hell???? One day after I am dead the "FAT LADY AND THE LIGHT BULB".....Will be worth $MILLIONS!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAAHHAHHAHA!!!!!!

[AirDave]

yeah you wish

[Stang]

First off, IT is an ebay term.
If ya take a huge canvas and tack it to the floor, then take 3 naked women, pour a different color on each. One yellow, one red and one blue. Have them wrestle on that canvas for awhile, while videoin the whole thing. Then jump in with them. After all is said and done, tack that canvas to the wall. Take pictures of you and the girls with the paint all over ya. That would be art. During the showing of such art, show the video of how it was done. Another form of art. You can also sell the pictures of photographic art. All forms of art. As your buddy walks around drinking champagne trying to pick up girls, with no art form for picking up girls. Finally gives up and just sits there drinking champagne till he passes out and throws up all over his shirt. Which would be "STUFF" on his shirt, not art. The next day you artisticly stack your money in the shape of a dollar sign, while your hung over buddy goes around and picks up the rest of the "STUFF" from the party. Later you grab the girls and go get "IT".

[Steelhorse]

First off, IT is an ebay term.
If ya take a huge canvas and tack it to the floor, then take 3 naked women, pour a different color on each. One yellow, one red and one blue. Have them wrestle on that canvas for awhile, while videoin the whole thing. Then jump in with them. After all is said and done, tack that canvas to the wall. Take pictures of you and the girls with the paint all over ya. That would be art. During the showing of such art, show the video of how it was done. Another form of art. You can also sell the pictures of photographic art. All forms of art. As your buddy walks around drinking champagne trying to pick up girls, with no art form for picking up girls. Finally gives up and just sits there drinking champagne till he passes out and throws up all over his shirt. Which would be "STUFF" on his shirt, not art. The next day you artisticly stack your money in the shape of a dollar sign, while your hung over buddy goes around and picks up the rest of the "STUFF" from the party. Later you grab the girls and go get "IT".


:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[AirDave]

hey...I've seen that video!!

I just downloaded it from AirbrushPorn.com

[Steelhorse]

hey...I've seen that video!!

I just downloaded it from AirbrushPorn.com

Ya, the splatter effects from blasting out your brush are the best parts!!!!!:sex_porn:

[Whit]

:wink2: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061020/ap_on_re_us/brf_goodwill_painting
one man's art,,, is one man's stuff,,, is one man's art !!!

[AirDave]

LOL sucker!


Do ya think the donor knew???

[Clem]

For you folks this is stuff when you paint for money and not really what you want. Art when you get to paint what you want.

For me it is practice and aggravation because I can't get my hands to give me what my mind wants.

Keep up the whatever, it looks good.

Clem

[Whit]

After about 3/4 pages here I guess I'll thro in
a form of explanation for the post in the first place !!!
Couple a years ago I had to give up the shop,,, so,,,
bought a house and semi retired,,, sorta,,, but anyway
I've found I've got more free time to do all the stuff
I've been putting off for lack of free time !!!
Now,,, for myself,,, what do I want to do ???????????
Where are all these things I've been putting off ??????
I'm drawing a blank here,,, just a blank sheet of paper !!!
For yourself,,, the hardest thing is a blank sheet of paper !!!
I'd go pick up a brush,,, but do what ???
I've got tha paint (getting dusty),,, got a couple of 150 ft
rolls of sign cloth (canvas) some space to work,,, but,,,
no idea as to what to do next !!!
(hope this is not tooo confusing)
I'm thinkin it's just a block,,, will probably pass,,, still,,,
has caused some reflection on what's gone before,,,
that's where the "Stuff" thing came from,,,
(if that makes any sense)

[Stang]

makes all kinda sense to me. Every once in awhile I'll sit down to draw so when somebody asks if I'm an artist I can draw somethin. When I sit down and look at the paper. I end up scribblin flames one there then get back to the remote. I hate it when somebody wants their harley painted but wants me to come up with the idea of what to paint. I tell them if I did that everybody would have the smae lookin bike so they have to come up wiht the idea, or I come up wiht somethin I know they'll hate. I have 13 sets of harley tanks and can only come up with a different idea for about five of em. I really haven't done much airbrushing so I'm a little taken back by tryin new when the simple old flame sells as good as anything. I think when I start over this time I'll try more new things. Hopefully soon so I can send some pictures in instead of just feedin ya all a bunch of shit.

[AirDave]

Well I don't think its a bunch of...

I love to hear what everyone is doing or not doing.
Makes me feel better about not doing much!

I have so many ideas of things I want to paint.
Just no place to do 'em!!
Paying jobs are usually okay, cause I do them on site
or take it to the body shop.
But not having a real "studio" to piss around in is a pain!

[Stang]

I was sittin here pissed today cause I have things to paint but the shop I'm gonna start paintin in is 20 miles away. I don't have a license and it will take a grand to get it back. Can't get the grand cause I can't get to work. So I think I'll take the trailer house a guy give me to paint harleys in. Line the living room with Chemlite so I can paint in it. Use one bedrom to do the body work and the other to airbrush in and drink beer in the kitchen. I think this will work.

[Whit]

Sounds like a Plan Stang !!!