What PSI for Clear coating?

[Oddball]

Hi Guys N Gals, what psi would be a good starting place for my first time at clear coating with 2K?
Thanks in advance.

[ABD]

Most go by the Gun..My HVLP calls for 18psi...I like it more around 25...I have a small touch up gun that sprays better at 40.

Just have to do some test sprays and see what psi it atomizes the best at..To low and you'll get a lot of orange peel. To high and you waste a lot of paint flying in the air and can get dry spray in spots.

Just my .02:D

[Oddball]

Thanks for the response ABD, I've just bought a "Sealey" 1.4 and on the side is stamped "MAX psi 145" .... :wtf: ??
I'm guessing that the bigger the needle the more pressure required I just wanted a rough starting point. :book2:
This is my first time using clear coat, I'm doing it on my own bike so if I make a "Phoo pah" it don't really matter so much! It's just time!

[Cowboy]

i,m Hoping You did Your Research OB on the Proper area it needs to be done in & the Safety Equipment involved in Using the 2k . Max Preasure Means Exactlly that , More then 145 psi is Probally where Safety Testing for the Gun failed or Proved Hazardous . As far as Spraying Preasure , You Dont say if You have a Siphon feed , Gravity feed , Standard or hvlp . All Using Different Preasures & Producing different fan patterns . Perty Hard to help With not Knowing what Yer Using . Best of Luck .

[Oddball]

Morning Cowboy, well it's noon here! LOL
Yeah I realise now that my post was a bit vague.. sorry about that.
The gun I have is a Sealey, 1.4 HVLP gravity feed.
Thanks for the concern with my safety, I spent quite a lot of time on the safety research and I have a devilbis air hood with a belt filter (the gun is also supplied fron this unit), I've hung plastic tarp's round my area and my filter (cooker hood) is filtering the air. (the nieghbours will never know) My heating source is halogen heaters and lights, in fact it's more cosy in there than it is in the house! ;)
As I write this I'm waiting for the third coat to flash off, I have just upped the pressure a bit because I'm starting to get orange peel, never mind, it's all part of the learning curve.
Talking of learning curve, this whole thing started out two years ago when I decided to paint my bike with an airbrush!
I didn't have one so I started from scratch! Two years down the line I'm still learning things with the AB but now I'm into pinstriping and now clear coating..... Soooo much to learn and aI wanna know it NOW LOL.

[Cowboy]

Yes You did do Yer Research OB & Quite well I might ad . lol . Thanks for the better Xplains, & Dont forget that We like Pics . You Might want to Share what You DID srart out with for psi , & what You found to work best for You , So it might Help others .

I Tried Most of the High dollar HVLP,s when They came out & didn,t like them, or Just to Stuborn to Switch from My Old binks #7 Siphon feed,s . One of Them if it aint Broke why fix it . hehe . Best of Luck OB .

[Oddball]

I'm right with you on the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" since I took my mum's alarm clock to bits when I was about 5!...... that was a good leathering! lol
I started out with about 35 psi, the spray looked ok until the clear had flashed so I upped it 10 to 45 psi, after the first full coat I started getting orange peel, just done second full coat at 55psi but it's now difficult to see because the orange peel from before is affecting the the surface.
I intend to keep going and biuld up a few coats so I'll have some meat to flat back.

[Oddball]

Well the learning curve is verticle :blushdown:
I think my compressor isn't man enough to supply my air hood and gun!
(I have a back up 2 Hp 20 ltr which I'll use for the air hood and my main 50 ltr for the gun next time),
The orange peel that I started with because my pressure was to low just got worse! :music-smiley-019:
The first lot of clear I mixed started to go off and it came out like candy floss! (might make an interesting texture for a future project):blind:
I don't know why but the last full wet coat (the 8th) has gone cloudy? could this be that the final coat went on befor the previous coats weren't quite flashed off?
On the Plus side, because the graphics were yellow tribal flame, the cloudy clear doesn't notice so I'll flat back, reverse mask the flames and re do the black background. I have escaped without any runs or sags so all in all a worth while exercise. :yes:

[ABD]

8 coats is a bit overkill IMO..Hell some clears recommend no more than 2 or 3....I try and stick with 4 most days...Never more than 4 in one session though..If you want more, let it cure, sand it and put more on later.


Yer Orange peel prob could be a few things..Yer clear mix could be to thick...It'll flow better if reduced a bit..(10% or so).....Normally if one coat goes down all orange peely..You adjust the following coats and they will just flow over the orange peel and eliminate it....You said it got worse, so yer adjustments must of been quite off and stayed that way.

Nice you didn't have any sags or runs..But remember a run or sag only happens when it's on to wet...Wet means nice flow out and no orange peel...It's a very fine line between perfect flow out and a run....If yer shooting orange peel, ya need to get it wetter I'd say.

[Oddball]

Thanks for that ABD, See ...... this is the problem with gathering information! the information is only as good as the source!
I was told that you had to get the coats on and lots of them...up to nine!
OK, so next time 4 coats max.
When clearing over AA you need to have one and preferably two dust coats so they dont count? right?
With reference to thinning, a Guru from another forum has always said and is quite insistant that when clearing AA you should not use thinners because of adhision problems but I'm thinking now that if the first full coat is applied and flashed off, the subsecquent coats if thinned wouldn't affect the first coats?

[Oddball]

if you are not reducing your clear this will contribute to the orange peel. I slightly reduce the clear,and have never had Op. It will save you much time in the color sanding department.

Thanks Hi Rise, what do you mean Color Sanding? sorry but I keep comming across terms that we don't use here in the UK :(

[ABD]

Color sanding is a term used for wetsanding the final coat...If you have bad orange peel, you can wetsand when it's all cured up and it removes the bumps..Then buff back to shine..I think the term over in yer neck of the woods is "flatting the clear".

I can't remember for sure, but House of Kolor calls for like 2-3 coats of UC-35...Even says "less is more"....Piling on 9 coats of clear is nuts IMO..LOL

The dust coats do count though. (for me anyway)...I don't like dust coats myself...If it's to light you risk adhesion issues..I lay the 1st coat on pretty wet but not 100%..If anything it'd be a wet coat that looks a bit orange peely. (if I see orange peel it just tells me it's not on wet enough, but that's fine for the 1st coat)...Once that flashes off, it's 100% wet coats till done...4 coats total is plenty for protection and enough there to sand and buff if needed..

I've never used AA, so can't say about the thinner issue..Lotta folks in here do use it though, so I'm sure you'll get some input..

[Oddball]

Thanks again ABD, why do you guys say colour sanding? where does the colour bit come from?, "flating back" is much more logical lol, Nations seprated by a common language! ;)
The AA and "mist coats" or "drop coats" issue has been well and truly thrashed out on AA forums for a long while, but if you read the data sheet from AA:
Clearing
A) Start with 1 light tack coat. Allow ample flash time to ensure acclimation with paint.
B) Apply wet coats. Follow clear manufacturer’s instructions.
There is more but it's not relevent to this thread.
I assume I'm right in thinking that the more clear coat you put on (in stages) the deeper the shine? I'd like my bike to look like you could just dive into the paint! (asking a lot?)

I've just managed to take some pictures, if yo look at the the reflections you will see the orange peel but the orange peel under the tank is real rough!

http://24254

http://24255

http://24256

So waddya think?

[REDTAIL]

i think i put like 3 coats on then sand and do a final coat so thta would make 4

RT

[Oddball]

Hi RT, thats basically what ABD is saying, God only knows how long these eight coats are gonna take to cure enough to sand! LOL
BTW, I like your :"don't worry about mistake's there the best teacher's" ! my sentiments - especially at the moment. I'm not to phased by this set back as A) It's my own bike and B) there's no time pressure. so I'm lucky there. My ball and chain (read wife) says you can't make omelettes without breaking eggs.......

[ABD]

I think color sanding came into play with single stage paints...Catalyst added to paint, spray and done...Then ya'd sand that to smooth it...Was more popular I think before the base coat clear coat days...Justa guess though...I agree, I don't use the color term either, I'm sanding clear not color..hahaha!

Nope the more clear ya lay on doesn't build depth..It's the flattening of all layers IMO...Starting from primer, (tiz why I like to wetsand and "flat" every layer of paint I can)....It tricks the eyes...Everything is as smooth as glass from primer up..Your eyes can't see where things start or stop...One blemish is all it takes to kill the illusion....Deep paintjobs are smooth paintjobs..lol

Hard to tell by yer pics...The flake throws things off..lol...But from the bottom pic, that looks more like crazy dry spray then orangepeel...I don't think yer laying enough material down..Hard to say though.

[AndyW]

You can over here anyway still get the single stage paints in rattle cans in "solid" colours ie black,reds etc, over here it means as well no need to apply a laquer coat, it is sand and buff, the shine is in the base coat colour, you just have to find it lol.....have seen in a few restoration threads in the UK using the term colour sand and it is for these single stage colour coats, but you don't get the super shiny unless you rub em down an get out the clear, where as the metallics/pearls are classed as two stage this means generally when your metallic final coat is tack stage you have to apply a mist coat, tack stage of the laquer then your wet coats to finish.

Played with the rattles for years and always seems to work, doing what it says on the tin and experimenting. Just getting into the gun malarky ha ha, however have found a new clear in a rattle that supposedly lays like out like a gun, as standard clears from the can can have a tendency for a bit of peel unless you find the balance in the speed of coverage ie to slow an wet runs ha ha.........suppose not a lot different there then.

Have a mate playing with a Lechler one and the finish is sweet so I hear, for me just finding something that is good without setting everything up for a small job, sourced another as well cant mind the name but it is supposed to be the same, so fun time to follow.

Have to test the Lechler though it is a water based aimed at spot repairs and small area clearing, been told it is a bit agressive to some colours, but have a feeling that it was applied with a catalogue of errors.

Anyway sorry for the bit of aside there Odd, good luck with getting it cracked.

[Cowboy]

I,m Curious OB, I Never Heard any Mention of the Metalflake , Was That the Originall finish & You just added Graphics ? Or did You Do it From Scratch & add the Metalflake in the Clear ? Sorry if I Missed Something somewhere , I Just throws a Whole new Light On Things Is You Sprayed the Flake in the clear. Thanks . CB

[Oddball]

Hi Cowboy, I suffer from "Senior Moments" somethimes! :forgiveme:, I keep forgetting that other people don't know the job which ofcourse is up close and personal to me .......
What you see isn't metal flake but the Flash on the camera picking up the AA Gem Saphire colour change paint which is over Deep Black But I must admit it does look like flake in the pictures. Looks totally cool in real time LOL
The original colour was black with decals (vinyl) I had to take the paint right back to bare metal where the decals were! I then used etch primer followed by hi-build 2k and the the AA system, base coat black, opaque deep black, Gem saphire, then the graphics.
I have just spoken to Simon Murry (SM Designs) who is Mr. AA over here. He is also the guy who taught me to airbrush. He is saying the same thng that you guys are, I've put too many coats on and I've been spraying "Dry", he also says the he uses a 1.3 gun and about 60 psi.

[Cowboy]

No Worrys OB, I Suffer from Senior Moments All the time Lol . But Thanks for Clearing it up, & Yes it Does appear to be rather Large flake also. I Recon I,m not Familiar with That Type of Paint .

So That is a Base Color over The Black base , & When You say AA Are You talking about auto Air Paints ? & After that color Was it Rough or does in end up with a Smooth finish ? Because It Certainlly Appears to Me that Way . Sorry for all the Questions just trying to sort it out in My head. Thanks again. CB

[Oddball]

Yes m8 your right AA = Auto Air, you love it or hate it ... I love it and the new Autobourn is really good.
I have always found that AA does give a slightly rough finish but I think I tend to airbrush a bit on the dry side! I hate it when I'm in the middle of a picture and the paint "spiders"!

[Cowboy]

Ok, Thanks again OB, Then in that Case I Beleive that Was Most of Yer Orange peel Problem, If it starts out Rough the Clear Only Makes it Worse with each coat Specially If You Shoot it TO thick OR TO thin. I Beleive the Blushing in the last Coat Was Caused by to Much Material, In to Many Layers Without Proper Curing time in Between . Also Humidity could be a factor as well . I Beleive I Would have done Just 3 good Coats Then Flatten it & Added 2 More Coats the Last one Being Thinned by 10% or so , Only Actually Leavin aroun 3 or 4 full Coats . I,ve Foun doing it That Way Theres Not Much need for Anything but a Finall Buff that way . & a Much nicer Glass tougher finish. Just My Opinion though. Still Looks Damn good Overall . Good show

[Oddball]

I must admit Cowboy, I'm a little surprised by you saying the rough surface will promote orange peel.
When I say rough I mean it feels a bit like running you fingers over dry 2000 wet & dry.
I was pleased to see that the steps the Tribal Flames caused have been smoothed out! :)
The "flames" were added over the base and gem and consisted of Base coat white, and opaque yellow so it was a definite step.
As was mentioned earlyer in this thread, the clear should runout and smooth the orange peel, or have I read it wrong?
BTW I've just added my web address to my signature, on there is a "bike page", the link is top left on the "Artwork page", the Clear on that bike was done by a bodyshop so I know that my work ain't that bumpy and that a good finish can be achieved over AA. (Have a look, I'd be interested what you think).

[Cowboy]

Gotcha OB . Just a Mis comunication on My Part As Ussuall. lol . Like I Said I,ve never used AA Or Any waterbased Or Waterborne Products for Airbrushing. I Guees I Was still Just Stuck on the Flake look to it. But I have seen others work with AA, before it was Cleared & in Pics it appears to Me Perty rough to be Clearing over .

But as You Xplain if Its Anywheres close to That Smooth , It Certainlly wouldn,t be an Issue at all. As I Flatten My clear with 500 Wet , Before the Finall clear & It Comes out like Glass . Gota Xcuse Me I get Confused Easilly , Plus cant see that darn good either. lol.

Thanks for the Link to Yer site also, Some Very nice looking work there & a Great Looking site.

[Oddball]

OK Cowboy, seems we're both on the same page now LOL
Thanks for the compliment on my site but it wasn't ment as a plug I was using it to show you the bike I did last month and the finish that a body shop achieved, if they can do it so will I .... eventully!!! LOL

[tugg]

too many coats can contribute to solvent pop. I would say 1 grip coat and 2-3 wet coats max.

[Oddball]

Hi Tugg. Thanks for that input and it's now basically what I'm doing and although my finish is a little orange peely it's nothing drastic and comes flat with a little work with 2000 w&d :)