View Full Version : First go at Canvas..Questions
I have a Pal who wants me to try a Portrait of his 2yr old son...No deadlines or high expectations...More of a challenge for myself.
So for my Noobie questions. I'd like some direction on getting the Gesso, Canvas, and paints. If i'm gonna do it I want it right.
..Gesso, I've read the prep steps involved. (Glad to see it's the same as i'm used to) . I've never bought the stuff. I've read there's good and bad out there. Any info on what kind to go with?
It needs to be Primed..Is this regular Primer that i use on metal? Or a special Primer just for this?..Or maybe it's just using a Base as a Primer?
..Canvas, Is there name brands to look for?..Or just a standard of Canvas that's the norm? Also which do you prefer?
..Paints. I've searched around and see Comart, Goldens mentioned. I'm using an Iwata HP-SB. Will either paints work well with this brush? Or give me trouble with consistency?
I'm thinking Trans is the way i want to go, (Kandy being my paint of choice with Uros). Is there still a need for primary/opaque? White, I'm guessing for a base and mixing?
...Also where's a good one stop shop?...I looked threw Bearair and had a hard time hunting down what i wanted...(probably due to lack of knowledge on my part)
Anything stick out that i'm totally forgetting?...Really appreciate any help you guys wanna give up...I'll keep reading and figuring stuff out. Just thinking i could learn more from all yer advice...Hope i'm not being a pain?
.....Thanks Guys and Gals
colourshift
02-24-2007, 07:35 PM
Think of Gesso as artists primer. Golden is a good brand, their white is brilliant...but I've had good result with Jerry's brand as well (www.jerrysartarama.com).
There's no need to 'prime' or 'base' your canvas with anything else other than with the gesso. Working on the theory that you're going to save your whites as much as possible, especially using the transparents (which is my choice also, most times).
Canvas, I prefer the gallery wrap type...there are no staples on the side...therefore, you can hang it without a frame - if that's your preference. Frederix is a popular brand here in the states. I usually buy mine online, and avoid the high prices at most art supply or craft stores (usually at Jerry's or www.artmediaonline.com).
Go with the transparents...I'd say and yeah, you're probably going to need white....but do try and save your whites...as it will look the best/most natural.
One stop shopping...www.jerrysartarama.com
What colorshift said,
And from my own experience try your hardest not to have to spray white it realy screws up your colours.
Michael
Perfect, Thanks for taken the time to respond.....I'll start poking around those links to see what i can come up with.
Frog, thanks for the tip...Yes that is my plan as far as white goes, Making it work that way will be another story though,hehe!
Nuther question....Do you guys put a final clear on the art?....Does Goldens or other paints come out flat or gloss?
Both airbrush and fine art supplies here !!!
Good Luck on it !!!
http://www.dixieart.com/Dixie_Art_Supplies_Airbrush_Main_Page.html
Thanx Whit!!
So i've been bouncing back and forth from Jerry's and Dixie...Found the Canvas and Gesso....At Jerry's i found Goldens but not in a trans (it's probably there, but i could'nt find it)....At Dixie i found Trans Golden but only like 10 colors. Half of which i probably wont need.
I can guess which colors i may need to get the look i want..But ya never know till it comes time to mix what ya ended up with. Don't wanna end up thinking "dam knew i shoulda bought that burnt umber" hahaha!...Is there a few "must have" colors for portraits?
I don't have a ref pic of the boy yet..But he's 2yrs old, fair, pinkish white skin, Blonde almost white hair. If that helps put things in a spectrum?
I don't mind buying more colors than i'll need for this project, Hopfully i'll be trying more and all colors will come in handy at some point...A kit would be nice..Saw one at Jerry's but it didn't say anything about Trans.
Don't want to seem like i'm looking for someone to hold my hand threw this..I promise once i'm in the right direction i'll be on my marry painting way, Hehehe!
Again thanks for all willing to help me out!
colourshift
02-25-2007, 09:54 AM
here's the trans kit at Jerry's:
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/art-supply/catalogs/0053815000000
It's about 30 bucks.
Here's the trans kits from Dixie, ComArt, which supposedly has a better binder - and it's 10 bucks cheaper:
http://dixieart.com/ComArt.html
See the flesh tone mix threads for ideas here on the forum on what colours you might need for portrait work....and remember, flesh isn't any one colour.
I'd do several "style tests" before starting to work on canvas, meaning...do fool around on a scrap piece of bristol board or illustration board before going to the canvas.
egneg
02-25-2007, 10:16 AM
This site also has just about everything an artist would need.
http://www.dickblick.com/
You might also try Jacguard airbrush paints. They have a sample kit of trans paints that are a reasonable price. I have not used them myself but have used other Jacguard products that are excellent.
colourshift
02-25-2007, 10:26 AM
it does eg, but their prices aren't that great on a lot of stuff...
egneg
02-25-2007, 10:28 AM
it does eg, but their prices aren't that great on a lot of stuff...
Granted but it is one stop shopping.
here's the trans kit at Jerry's:
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/art-supply/catalogs/0053815000000
It's about 30 bucks.
Here's the trans kits from Dixie, ComArt, which supposedly has a better binder - and it's 10 bucks cheaper:
http://dixieart.com/ComArt.html
See the flesh tone mix threads for ideas here on the forum on what colours you might need for portrait work....and remember, flesh isn't any one colour.
I'd do several "style tests" before starting to work on canvas, meaning...do fool around on a scrap piece of bristol board or illustration board before going to the canvas.
Thanks again, I looked all over and didn't find what you did...Helps to know what yer lookin for too though,hehe.
I know skin tones aren't one color..I've used up to 6 or so Kandies with umpteen variations of those mixed, Trying to get it right....It's just with these different brands there's so many names for colors..Moss green, emerald green, Cianas, ochres, pathalo blues.(i'm sure i spelled most of those wrong)..It's crazy!
I think a kit will be a good start..Then what colors i find i'm lacking (or can't make by mixing) i can pick up individualy......I will test all these formulas i cook up also before i give delve in.
I'm excited to give this a go...I've done the occasional pic of a hot chic on a tank or scary dude with glowing eyes. Things that resemble human skin and traits but had no need to be photorealistic...Never tried to capture "likeness" of a particular individual...Should be a great learning experience...I'll keep ya'll posted if yer interested?
Really appreciate all yer time helpin my little adventure..You guys rule!!!
Sooooo, I finally got my Ref pic of the little guy....After doing up some photoshops for some options, My friend liked this Sepia look the best.
I mentioned i've never seen these Com-art colors in person and all the crazy names just add to the confusion for me.....Is there any chance some of you to tell me what colors you would start with for this?...I know i'll be making darker and lighter shades of the same colors..But i have no clue what colors to start with?
I'll be going with Trans. All i'm thinking right now is Smoke, yellows, oranges, maybe ochre and burnt sienna. Might need some reds??..There's like 4 versions of every color..I'm lost.
....I'll buy the stuff and guess and mix on my own...But it would be silly helpfull if i could get some good starting points....Thanks again Guys!
airarts
03-06-2007, 12:19 PM
Sooooo, I finally got my Ref pic of the little guy....After doing up some photoshops for some options, My friend liked this Sepia look the best.
I mentioned i've never seen these Com-art colors in person and all the crazy names just add to the confusion for me.....Is there any chance some of you to tell me what colors you would start with for this?...I know i'll be making darker and lighter shades of the same colors..But i have no clue what colors to start with?
I'll be going with Trans. All i'm thinking right now is Smoke, yellows, oranges, maybe ochre and burnt sienna. Might need some reds??..There's like 4 versions of every color..I'm lost.
....I'll buy the stuff and guess and mix on my own...But it would be silly helpfull if i could get some good starting points....Thanks again Guys!
Start off with your fleshtones.....the basic color is opaque white, transparent Burnt Sienna, with a touch of transparent blue........
Once you have established your basic fleshtone that "matches" the lightest points, you can add more of the Burnt Sienna and Cobalt Blue for darker areas. NEVER use black! That should get you started. You can email me to Dell:geek:
Start off with your fleshtones.....the basic color is opaque white, transparent Burnt Sienna, with a touch of transparent blue........
Once you have established your basic fleshtone that "matches" the lightest points, you can add more of the Burnt Sienna and Cobalt Blue for darker areas. NEVER use black! That should get you started. You can email me to Dell:geek:
Thank you Karrine.........I'm gonna get one of those little kits that have like ten colors in em....But i needed to be sure of the main colors i would be using the most.....Ya gave me something to go on now...Thanks for the invite for some e-mail help also..I may bug ya if i run into a wall,Hahaha!
airarts
03-06-2007, 04:46 PM
I really learned to like these and E'TAC EFX 500 (from Dru's class ;-)
Holbein Aeroflash Colors - Bold indicates colors used
TRANSPARENT COLORS OPAQUE COLORS
Scarlet 72
Scarlet 3
Orange 10
Yellow 12
Moss Green 22
Viridian 23
Cerulean Blue 31
Cobalt Blue 32
Blue Violet 40
Violet 41
Red Violet 42
Burnt Umber 50
Burnt Sienna 51
Black 68
White Paint Badger Air-Opaque
Sepia 53
Thanks again my friend!....Still wondering if you guys put anything over these paints when yer done?....Can you put a uro clear over em?..Or is there a more Canvas friendly clear out there?..Or maybe you just leave it as is?
colourshift
03-07-2007, 05:23 PM
You can buy acrylic varnish in various glosses (or not) at any artists supply. I hate rollin em on, I always spray it.
You can buy acrylic varnish in various glosses (or not) at any artists supply. I hate rollin em on, I always spray it.
Thanx Lynne...I know that's jumping the Gun a bit..But i wanted to get everything in one order if possible.........Acrylic Varnish is what i look for then?..Any brand names good bad type stuff?.........Am i annoying anyone yet?h:partyalone: Hahahaaa
colourshift
03-07-2007, 06:08 PM
Golden is always a good choice.
And yeah, you're working with acrylics, therefore...acrylic varnish would be the way to go....go for a satin or mat...or buy both and combine the two for a custom luster.
Golden is always a good choice.
And yeah, you're working with acrylics, therefore...acrylic varnish would be the way to go....go for a satin or mat...or buy both and combine the two for a custom luster.
Yer my savior, Thank you much!!
Hmmm? Got another lame O question for ya's....Finally going to order the stuff today (had to wait till i got $$$ on the credit card)........The paint sizes are 1oz and 4oz.....The Canvas i'm getting is 16x20 inches.
.......My problem is, I don't know how far this paint will go?..What colors will i need a healthy supply of?
Say If I use Opaque white for my main mixing color, tint the white with my Trans Sienna and other colors (depending)....So i'd have multiple shades/Tones to layer. Obviously in this case i'd need a bigger bottle of White and less of the others.
.....But by using an Opaque for the main color and tinting with Trans....Wont that defeat the purpose of using Trans in the first place? It'd be like a 80% Opaque, 20% Trans mix. (simple example)
Or say i use Trans Sienna for the backbone of my color...Then tint that with white...I'd need a big bottle of Sienna and just a little one of white..End up being 80% Trans, 20% Opaque mix.....(I'm thinking this is the correct route?? But at the same time, Mixing any Opaque with a Trans would seem to defeat the purpose?)
Or should i just buy the Farm and get all 4oz bottles?...(maybe that's not even enough?)....I'm confusing the hell outta myself here.
....Karrine mentioned above White, Sienna, Blue are good starting colors...I can't imagine needing as much blue as the other colors? Few drops here and there?..Those kits are all 1oz size..I just can't see that being enough paint for a 16x20 Canvas (other than blue perhaps?).....Any ideas? Maybe a shovel to the head.:clapping2:
Clinton
03-12-2007, 10:16 AM
If your going with the Goldens it's usually cheaper to buy the 4oz bottles (about 30%) than the 1oz. If you going to do only one canvas with them than the 1oz size will be more than enough. I've had my 4oz size bottles for about 2 years now only go through the shading grey fast, about 3 bottle to the rest of my stock. I also use the Golden Fluid acrylics alot and just thin them out with the AB medium, they go a long way. That's what Golden does with them anyway, the Fluids are the true form of their acrylics.
airarts
03-12-2007, 10:28 AM
Dell, make sure you get the larger white, but I have multiple brands for the other colors, therefore all my 1 oz. bottles add up to 4 oz. It is up to you, but if you paint as much as I think you do, you may want the 4 oz. bottles. You can use Golden on anything, even automotive, just clear it afterward. You may even like it better than what you were using. Have fun!
Karrine
Thank you both so much for the quick response:clapping2:......I'll go poke around start ordering up some stuff...Hopefully in a week or so i'll start having something to show...Don't know what it's gonna look like, But i'll show it,hahaha!
Well here's a little list i came up with....I can't find half of what i start out looking for...Don't know if this stuff is what i want to use er what? You guys will probably laugh at my cheesy attempt to order this stuff.
It might be better to just grab a piece of metal and slop some Uros on it.. I'm stressin without even touchin the stuff...What a pain in the Arse!
I was going to go with Comart....But remember years ago i had a little kit and hated it. Course my knowledge of how paint works was much less back then......Maybe i'll hate this stuff too, But it's worth a shot.
Golden Airbrush Acrylic Transp Shading Gray 4oz
Fredrix Stretched Canvas Gallery Wrap 16in by 20in
Liquitex 32oz White Gesso
Maimeri 75ml Gloss Picture Varnish
Golden Fluid Matte Medium 16oz
Golden Fluid Acrylic Trans Yellow 1oz
Golden Fluid Acrylic Cobalt Blue 1oz bottle
Golden Fluid Acrylic Titanium White 4oz
Golden Fluid Acrylic Burnt Sienna 4oz
Here's the ref again for a memory refresh..so ya don't have to scroll way up to peek!:)
Me again:)....Guess i'm just talkin to whoever's bored enough to read this, haha!
Well i talked my Pal into putting some more $$ into this thing....Started off as one of those "here's $100, get what you can and i'll give you more later"..So that was half of my problem buying the supplies.
So now i'm gonna buy the 4oz of the main colors i'll need..I'll pick up a couple kits of 1oz for whatever odd color i wanna use, To tint and mix with also....I'd rather have to many colors than run out in the middle of a project....Plus extra colors will go on to the next project, Tiz always handy.
You guys have been a great help..I hope to return the favor sometime...I'll keep ya posted how this thing turns out.
Cowboy
03-13-2007, 09:45 AM
I gotta tell Ya Dell, thats quite a project Yer taking on My hats off to Ya fer havin what it takes to trying it. Waaaay outa My league, So I aint no help to Ya. But just wishin You the best of luck. Cowboy
I gotta tell Ya Dell, thats quite a project Yer taking on My hats off to Ya fer havin what it takes to trying it. Waaaay outa My league, So I aint no help to Ya. But just wishin You the best of luck. Cowboy
I really Appreciate that Cowboy...Gonna need all the luck i can get...I like a challenge, Keeps things interesting, So i'm looking forward to it....Just can't wait to get all this ordering crap outta the way and get ta paintin.:clapping2:
Thanks again!!
airarts
03-13-2007, 11:01 AM
The way you pulled off that KISS mobile, I doubt it will be THAT challenging....
Come on Dell, give yourself more credit than that. YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO DO THIS WELL! I was blown away when I first saw your work.
GO GET 'EM!:smiley_walk_dog3:
The way you pulled off that KISS mobile, I doubt it will be THAT challenging....
Come on Dell, give yourself more credit than that. YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO DO THIS WELL! I was blown away when I first saw your work.
GO GET 'EM!:smiley_walk_dog3:
Hahaha...give me the warm fuzzies Karinne....Thank you.
I don't discredit myself. I don't Fume with confidence either....I'm just a firm believer in the 50/50 rule..Always a 50% chance of anything going in any direction. Good/bad/up/down...Wont know until it happens...That way i'm never surprised. Cuz i was well aware of all possibilities from the begining.
Just how I Roll!!Hahahaha!:partyalone:
Thanks again Big K...Means a lot!
Got my shiny new Canvas yesterday!......The rest should show today according to tracking..
...Got me thinking though..I got Gesso to smooth it with...But the more i look at it i really like the Nostalgia feel of it as is......Do portraits look like hell if you don't smooth the surface?.....Don't think i've seen any "new stuff" done that way?. Aside from Bob Ross's oil based happy trees, with brushes.
Just curious of your opinions.
XZOTIC INK
03-21-2007, 04:02 PM
i can only tell you my personal opinion, when not gessoed, it makes the paint splatter easier, the canvas has no tooth. Also, when scratchin out highlights, its a nicer and easer with the gesso.. There is a difference, with or without, In the beginning i never knew to gesso the canvas until further research, i saw the noah video and tried it, and i always gesso now, do layers, sand lightly between.. Also the canvas has little tiny "bumps" if you would call it that, i dont know what its called, but when the gesso is applied it gives you a smoother service to work on.. In the end, it actually looks nicer than the one without the gesso..maybe this can help ya out?:confused:
Thanks Nat.......I figured most used it for a reason...(looks better)...But having never seen the diff i wouldn't know....I also "guessed" that it would mess with scratching and erasing, Which you also confirmed..Thank you :)
airarts
03-21-2007, 04:58 PM
You are a smart rat Dell to ask that question! YES you do, so go here http://www.adcookfineart.com/article-aa-canvasprep.html
You are a smart rat Dell to ask that question! YES you do, so go here http://www.adcookfineart.com/article-aa-canvasprep.html
Ooh yes Karrine..I read that before..Great info!......That's what i had planned on doing pretty much regardless.......Looking at my first bare Canvas in person though, I was taken back to days of old....Just has an old world feeling of art with the raw texture and material.....It Just peeked my curiosity to what it would look like done up in that way.
Different paints/tools of today..Didn't know if it was worth even contemplating..That's were you guys come in...Always with the answers,hehe Thanks
XZOTIC INK
03-21-2007, 05:13 PM
NICE SITE, just checked it out, GOOD INFORMATION, IM KEEPIN THAT!!:clapping2:
Well, 1st observation of my little escapade......Gesso spreads nothing like Bondo or sheet rock compound..haha!
.........No biggie,,,But does this stuff ever dry???...One very light coat so far (Still see plenty of texture)...so it's not gobbed on to heavy....Put it under my heat light for a bit...got bored..shut that off and brought it in the house....Been nearly an hour...Just starting to tack up....Can't imagine being able to sand for another couple hours.....At this rate it's gonna be 3 days applying Gesso....Is this the Norm?...I was thinking 1/2hr to 1 tops for cure times??....I'm using Jerrys world famous Gesso.
XZOTIC INK
03-22-2007, 01:42 PM
im not really sure, mine never took that long, maybe ive been doing it wrong all along? Usually its pretty quick, but i put very thin layers on it, than sand and than some more. Maybe you just applied it thicker? Maybe ive been applying it too thin? that website that air posted, "ad cook", said something about how it was a couple day process. I actually ran into 2 days process gessoing stuff, I dunno, beats me kid?:confused:
I can only realy comment as a hairystick painter as I dont do much AB on canvas YET.
I think there is something wrong there I use golden and its normaly dry after 2 hours. Although I would always leave a canvas for at least a day before I started painting, then I would tighten the canvas using the wedges.
Mmmmm never noticed anyone advising to tighten the canvas.
As a rule after gesso I found I would need to tighten the stretcher bars to give a nice tight "drum" canvas,.
Michael
colourshift
03-22-2007, 02:08 PM
I've never used those widgets they sell with the canvas...I just spray the back of the canvas with plain old water, and it tightens as it dries.
About the Gesso, ABD, I use the same brand. But guys, I put my gesso on not with a brush, but with a vinyl application tool (kinda like a bondo spreader) in thin coats. You wouldn't gob on drywall compound, only to have to do twice the work to sand it flat. Same here.
The coats, when applied with a spreader, take maybe 10? 20 min to dry... and then I build up another...etc...initial coats of gesso...I don't sand until I've built up 3-4 coats, to avoild 'catching' the canvas (causes fuzzies).
XZOTIC INK
03-22-2007, 02:12 PM
how do you do that, SORRY abd, latched on to your thread, yes i do notice that after i gesso, that the canvas gets loosened a bit, how do you tighten it back up, i use store bought. There is staples on the side of it, so i just paint white over them to hide them..can i take it apart after gesso and staple it back together your saying, tighter?
About the Gesso, ABD, I use the same brand. But guys, I put my gesso on not with a brush, but with a vinyl application tool (kinda like a bondo spreader) in thin coats. You wouldn't gob on drywall compound, only to have to do twice the work to sand it flat. .
Yup used a spreader from the start....One very thin layer....Pretty much see all the texture still....It's just now getting tacked enough where it wont come off to the touch......wouldn't be able to sand anytime soon though.
As the norm when working with bondo..You always sand after every coat (for tooth)...Lynne yer suggesting you go up to 3 or 4 before sanding?...That would save some time if it's safe to do?
Other topic/ I hadn't thought of making it more tight...My 1st impression was it's a tad flimsy and could use to be more taut....Thanks for those tips as well.
Do you get a little pack of wooden wedges with the canvas ?
And look at the back of the canvas you should see slots at the corners ?
If you dont have these ya cant tighten them.
If you do then you place the wedge in the slots then pushing them in tightens the canvas.
I normaly lay the canvas on the floor or a large enough table and gently tap the wedges in. Tap one corner then the opposite diagnal corner then the other 2 then back again keep going till its tight enough.
Its important to have the canvas laying on a flat surface so that you can see that you are not distorting the canvas by overtightening.
Hope that helps, if not ask away.
Michael
LOL man I type slow.....Lyne thats a good idea sparaying water on the back BUT you can get distorted canvases that way, depends on the quality.
colourshift
03-22-2007, 02:49 PM
just using Frederix gallery wrap in various thicknesses... occasionally I'll splurge for a Masterworks Monet Gallery wrap.....no odd warpage so far.
Just looked over the Canvas...There are slots on the inside corners of the wood...But no wedges anywhere to be seen to use for those slots.
The Gesso seems to be dry now....Wondering if i should sand smooth b-4 next coat? (That's what i planned on doing)....But sandpaper will end up hitting the canvas like Lynne mentioned if i do....Is a light scuff sufficient? Not needed?...Or is aggressive sanding called for?
Lyne ya got me now I,m gonna have to try it. forums are so cool for this type of thing, exchange of idea's.
BTW if you have a "dented" canvas, spraying water on the back can often pull it back.
Lyne ya got me now I,m gonna have to try it. forums are so cool for this type of thing, exchange of idea's.
BTW if you have a "dented" canvas, spraying water on the back can often pull it back.
Handy info Frog/Lynne.....This Canvas was dented a bit by the cardboard sleeve label thing on it......my first thought..I dabbed some water on with my finger in the spot..Threw it under the heat lamp for a few...Did the trick:partyalone:
XZOTIC INK
03-22-2007, 03:30 PM
thats what those little wedges are for, i always gave them to the customer still attached to back of the canvas, i thought they were for some hanging device,...ADAAA!:smashfreakB:
XZOTIC INK
03-22-2007, 03:33 PM
FROG, IM LAUGHING AT MYSELF, i cant tell ya how many canvas paintings i sold and left the wedges still attached to the back, i figured they would figure what they were for, O MY GOD HOW EMBARRASSING :rotflmao:
hahaa..I woulda been in the same boat Nat...Probably woulda kept em for myself and made a little wooden airplane er something...WooHooo
The very first canvases I bought had destructions in with them so I found out early.
But I'm sure if I hadnt seen them it would have taken me ages to realise what they were for.
colourshift
03-22-2007, 04:19 PM
ABD... Yes, as A.D. said in his tutorial, you build up an initial layer or layers of paint to help knock out the canvas texture....then sand, then add more coats as needed...I even do the sides, as there are no staples there on a gallery wrap, and make everything perfect.
airarts
03-22-2007, 04:29 PM
Spraying the back of the canvas with water is excellent. I was taught to add some salt to it, so that it tightens even more. My canvas I was preppeing dried in a matter of minutes, but than again, it was 100 degrees out with only ~9% humidity! I do REALLY thin layers, so that I get an even coat, plus it dries quicker.
ABD... Yes, as A.D. said in his tutorial, you build up an initial layer or layers of paint to help knock out the canvas texture....then sand, then add more coats as needed...I even do the sides, as there are no staples there on a gallery wrap, and make everything perfect.
Thanks again....I put layer #2 on just now...should have full coverage by 4-5..layers at my current rate.(maybe more/less, I'm just Guessing)
...I thought of doing the sides...But my friend (who this is for) is building a frame that the Canvas will "sit" into..Saves a little for me,hehe ...I'm bringing it down a bit on the sides though for the look.
This is turning out to be quite the thread....Thanks to all that are playing along:clapping2:
ing the back of the canvas with water is excellent. I was taught to add some salt to it, so that it tightens even more. My canvas I was preppeing dried in a matter of minutes, but than again, it was 100 degrees out with only ~9% humidity! I do REALLY thin layers, so that I get an even coat, plus it dries quicker.
Salt huh?.....Another one for the bag of handy's,haha!
Yeah i'm keeping these layers crazy thin..This second one is drying better than the first...Still gonna be about an hour though i'm figuring...1st was more like 2-1/2hrs.
But the weather here is cold and wet...Thought keeping it in the house would speed things up?.....aww well...takes as long as it takes i suppose...I'll get there,haha....Thanks!
just an update....Thread might come in handy some day for people looking to tavkle this sort of deal...
Just put coat #5 on.....Still see Canvas texture when ya really get up close and look.....That will cover soon enough...One worry though is seeing the Stretcher (frame) impression threw the canvas.....(no what i mean?)....Like the wood hits the Canvas and you can see the shape threw the canvas...Is this par for the course?...Or should i keep going till it's gone...I think it looks like hell seeing it, would like to get rid of it....Just keep layering i suppose??
airarts
03-23-2007, 10:09 AM
just an update....Thread might come in handy some day for people looking to tavkle this sort of deal...
Just put coat #5 on.....Still see Canvas texture when ya really get up close and look.....That will cover soon enough...One worry though is seeing the Stretcher (frame) impression threw the canvas.....(no what i mean?)....Like the wood hits the Canvas and you can see the shape threw the canvas...Is this par for the course?...Or should i keep going till it's gone...I think it looks like hell seeing it, would like to get rid of it....Just keep layering i suppose??
I put more than 5 layers on mine, but the first 5 were so thin, it was like just smearing a thin coat of oil on a body before going out into the sun, so I was more heavy handed on the next 5, like I was smearing bug spray on a body before going outside when the mosquitos and nociums are attacking!
I put more than 5 layers on mine, but the first 5 were so thin, it was like just smearing a thin coat of oil on a body before going out into the sun, so I was more heavy handed on the next 5, like I was smearing bug spray on a body before going outside when the mosquitos and nociums are attacking!
hahaa....Yeah i'm gonna have to start going thicker...or i'll be on 20 layers before it covers.....I may be being to finicky also..trying to get even and smooth strokes...Where i could probably get a lil sloppier and let the sandpaper straighten it out.....I'll get the hang of it sooner or later:partyalone:
airarts
03-23-2007, 10:48 AM
That is exactly what I started thinking, I figure tomorrow I will have a snding affair befor I jump in the shower.
colourshift
03-23-2007, 10:54 AM
How hard are you pressing when applying these coats?? I just barely have the weight of my hand...and although I can see canvas, sort of....texture starts to drop off after about three coats...if that.
Also, you're not thinning it, are you?
How hard are you pressing when applying these coats?? I just barely have the weight of my hand...and although I can see canvas, sort of....texture starts to drop off after about three coats...if that.
Also, you're not thinning it, are you?
Not thinning it, Straight outta the container....May be pressing to hard...Keeping the layers thin....When i go thicker, less pressure...It seems to glob or skip (miss spots) leaving an uneven spread in spots..Does that make sense?
I'm putting enough pressure to even out the imperfections and get smooth lines...Only left over (bumps) are from the edge of the spreader..(i'm sure you know what i'm talking about there)....It's working...Just slowly.:)
airarts
03-23-2007, 04:17 PM
I didn't thin mine, and it went on pretty goo. Just a few spots of skipping that are very small, nothing that I cant sand down. How do you thin it down?
I didn't thin mine, and it went on pretty goo. Just a few spots of skipping that are very small, nothing that I cant sand down. How do you thin it down?
I would guess with water...But what do i know, hehe
Nuther Update....Day 3 of playing in the Gesso.....Sanded it yesterday morning after 6 coats....All the texture is long gone...But you could still see the outline of the wood frame under the Canvas....Put on another 4 coats yesterday....Checked this morning...Still see the frame lines....Just put on another coat....So far i've used almost a Quart of Gesso.
Maybe if i tighten it, It'll lift the Canvas off the internal frame eliminating the lines? It's not very loose at all....Dam near tight as a Drum now....I'm gonna sand again when this is dry and see what it looks like..
Man, Next Canvas i do, I'm buying a gallon of this crap and prepping like 4 at once..One at a time just don't cut it,hehe!
airarts
03-25-2007, 12:24 PM
Man, Next Canvas i do, I'm buying a gallon of this crap and prepping like 4 at once..One at a time just don't cut it,hehe!
Mee too! I just got done sanding yesterday, ALL DAY, and now I need to scuff. What a chore that sanding is!
Soooo, I'm probably the only idiot that it takes a week to prep a dam Canvas....Gesso is not my friend i tell you!!!
Sanding...This is a fun ordeal....dry paper loads up so it's useless....Wet sanding seems to reactivate the Gesso..Making a nice gooey paste which makes the paper dam near glue to the canvas in mid stroke...Not to mention the nice white paint job i gave myself and everything in the area....
Letting the water dry up now...Gotta give it another skim coat to fill in some minor scratches that are to deep to sand out....Ohhh found out that drying the wet Gesso by hand (towel) makes nice new scratches on the surface...I now resorted to high pressure air dry.
.......Hahha, never in a million years woulda guessed i'd have such a PITA time prepping a dam Canvas. Ahhhh good times:angry-smiley-030:
airarts
03-26-2007, 12:58 PM
Soooo, I'm probably the only idiot that it takes a week to prep a dam Canvas....Gesso is not my friend i tell you!!!
Sanding...This is a fun ordeal....dry paper loads up so it's useless....Wet sanding seems to reactivate the Gesso..Making a nice gooey paste which makes the paper dam near glue to the canvas in mid stroke...Not to mention the nice white paint job i gave myself and everything in the area....
Letting the water dry up now...Gotta give it another skim coat to fill in some minor scratches that are to deep to sand out....Ohhh found out that drying the wet Gesso by hand (towel) makes nice new scratches on the surface...I now resorted to high pressure air dry.
.......Hahha, never in a million years woulda guessed i'd have such a PITA time prepping a dam Canvas. Ahhhh good times:angry-smiley-030:
:laughing_rolling: The gesso was the easy part for me, but the sanding sucks! I did it while my paper was wet, and had to rewet it from time to time, but I also had 100 grit wet to use for heavier areas, then go back over it with 320 grit. All I need now is to scuff, get an approval on my design from the teacher, draw it on the canvas, and Rock N Roll! :huepfen024:
colourshift
03-26-2007, 01:02 PM
You know guys, I don't get this... it takes me a day to prep two canvas'. For everything. And scuffing? why. After hitting a canvas with 320, working it smooth.... I would think it's scuffed enough.
You know guys, I don't get this... it takes me a day to prep two canvas'. For everything. And scuffing? why. After hitting a canvas with 320, working it smooth.... I would think it's scuffed enough.
I dunno Lynne?.....If the stuff would dry in under 2hrs i might be able to get something done......When wet sanding it...The Gesso becomes "fresh" again and i gotta treat it like a dam Newborn...Hit it with a finger nail or edge of the paper by mistake, I have a nice new scratch to fill (wait hours) and sand again....Found out drying it by hand scratches the hell outta it..
Mainly just dry time slowing this whole thing down....Got it sitting in my Kitchen with a heat run about 8'away...Usually 65 to 70 in there....Still a 2 hour (give or take) dry time no matter the layer thickness.
It does look better now than it has yet...Still more to go though
Finally down to a couple little spots smaller than a finger nail where i sanded threw, Showing a little texture....No biggie put some more Gesso on...(Extremely thin, Skim coat just on the spots)...These two little spots have been drying for the normal 2hrs????
Did i get a bad batch of Gesso maybe?...This is the slowest drying stuff ever!......There's just no way this stuff will dry in under an hour (barley 2hrs). No matter how thin the layer.
Is a bad batch even plausible?...Just curious...Should be on to painting tomorrow (fingers crossed)
Oh and water on the back method mentioned above worked like a charm...That thing is crazy tight now...Like Frog said, "tight as a Drum"....With no warping issues either.
colourshift
03-27-2007, 03:32 PM
I'm just totally mystified with the drying time. I know it's a little more humid than normal, but hell. I've used Jerry's Ultimate, and Golden....both with good results.
I'm just totally mystified with the drying time. I know it's a little more humid than normal, but hell. I've used Jerry's Ultimate, and Golden....both with good results.
Thanks Lynne....Always appreciate yer feedback....Though this situation being a tad mystifying???...Nice to know i can get some answers when there's answers to be had..
You guys-n-gals that posted in here are my "saving grace" as far as this nightmare goes.
....LOL!!...Not all that bad, I'll get the hang of it....Maybe the next batch will dry better??
airarts
03-27-2007, 04:04 PM
I am going to use a Scotch Brite on mine, because it is as smooth as glass after wet sanding with 320.
bigwater
03-27-2007, 04:32 PM
I'm by no means an expert at gesso, but my mother was. I remember growing up watching her coat her art canvas'. She always made her own gesso out of water, rabbit skin glue, and chalk. Claimed it was better than the store bought stuff. Of course you may be using acrylic gesso instead of traditional... i don't know.
The only time she ever ran into problems was when she put too little chalk in the mix, or when she let it get too hot when cooking it up, so i guess you could have a bad batch. I don't remember drying ever being a big issue... it was usually a gummy surface when there was too little chalk, and stuff that wouldn't stick when it got too hot.
She would just let it dry to the touch and then add another coat until she was satisfied that the frame wasn't showing through... usually about 6 layers or so, and it seems like she did all the layers for the canvas on the same day, just checking it after an hour or so. Soon as it was touch dry she'd apply another layer.
After that she'd let it cure for a day or two, and go to scraping and sanding. one thing that she did that always intrigued me was after she thought the canvas was ready, she'd take a piece of sketching charcoal, lay it on it's side on the canvas and lightly rub it over the surface. Then she'd lightly rub it with her fingers so that the obvious sanding grooves were highlighted. Then she'd use real fine grit sandpaper and keep going over it until all traces of the charcoal were gone. Made for a perfect canvas.
Like I said... I'm no expert. Never even done a canvas myself, but this topic did bring up childhood memories so I thought I'd share.
Excellent bigwater..Thanks for that...The charcoal works the same as a guide coat on auto type applications...That's a great idea and a great story ta boot!..Thanks for sharing:clapping2:
airarts
03-27-2007, 04:51 PM
Now we know where he gets it from :wink2:
airarts
03-30-2007, 12:07 PM
I remembered that I didn't lay down a white base before the design. I think it will be ok though since all the canvases I have done in the past were never done that way. The gesso is a white base to begin with. Colourshift, you seem to have much experience in this area.....
colourshift
03-30-2007, 12:09 PM
No, I don't lay down white before I start... well, unless the gesso that I'm using isn't very white. The jerry's is ok, and I've put it down next to the golden for a comparison...just about the same.
airarts
03-30-2007, 12:13 PM
Thank you VERY much! :clapping:
K, Guys -n- Gals....Here is where i'm at so far..As of about an hour ago.....Still got a bunch to do...Change some things i'm not diggin....Got the shirt to do still....All the fun little details..Tighten up lines here and there.....Just mainly blocked in so far.
Pics don't come out so hot...Kinda adds and takes away the colors in spots...i just snapped some quickies...Soooo, What ya'll think?...For my 1st shot so far...Trying to get an "old" feeling to it....
airarts
03-31-2007, 03:32 PM
You move quickly, don't you? Are you going to use the scratch technique in the hair and specular highlights? Don't be afraid of freehand shields around the eyes. Great start. I am jealous because of how fast you got started. Looks great so far Dell! :clapping2:
You move quickly, don't you? Are you going to use the scratch technique in the hair and specular highlights? Don't be afraid of freehand shields around the eyes. Great start. I am jealous because of how fast you got started. Looks great so far Dell! :clapping2:
Thanks Karrine...Yeah i'm gonna scratch up all the goodies...lot of hair stuff yet to do. Eyes as well.
I gotta question for you mix masters of the paint.
In the pic below describes my dilly.........The cheek i want to change, Doesn't look so grey in person, But it still has to be changed....I like the color shading on the forhead ("want" in the pic)......How to go about changing this is what i'm wondering?.
...Can i just go back in over the greyish with my lightest skin tone?...Then bring down my forhead shadow with that color?...That sounds correct to me..But i know there's always that "color change" factor....Don't wanna end up with a completely new color, ya know?......Thanks for any ideas:partyalone:
airarts
03-31-2007, 04:19 PM
...Can i just go back in over the greyish with my lightest skin tone?...Then bring down my forhead shadow with that color?...That sounds correct to me..But i know there's always that "color change" factor....Don't wanna end up with a completely new color, ya know?......Thanks for any ideas:partyalone:
NO! Remember that white will give you a color shift to even more blue, and since that grey is on the blue side, I would use something like a translucent Sepia mixed with a touch of translucent Burnt Seinna to first get the "desired flesh tone" back, THEN use the shading color you wanted. Another thing, look at the reference and what you want to do right next to each other to compare.
Actually, now that I see them right next to each other, the whole thing could use a bit more warmth. Usually people make there skintones to orange, but in your case,........Pump Up the Volume!
"Pump up the volume"..hahaha..I like that!..I'm using the ref colors as a guideline for the "old" look...I don't think i'll go so "yellowish" as the ref...But i will add more "warmth" as you said...Thank you.
I'll try those colors and see what happens...I digg staring at the pics on here and picking out things i may have missed otherwise..For instance "the close up eye pic"..That Pupil is to small...The eyes are barley roughed in now...But that's an issue that needs addressing.
If anyone spots something off please do tell...I may already know the issue and haven't gotten to it at this point..But at the same time i may have no clue:).....Can't get any better than all yer artistic eyes!...Always appreciated:clapping2:
So here's todays Mess....I dunno? Not diggin it much so far...Should probably do it over...Everyone around here would yell at me though,hahaa.
Pics only seem to look good at these angles..The Camera just wont get the real colors or there's always a sneaky glare in there...So that's why they're sideways.
Think i'm gonna Spiff, Grab a Beer and watch the race....Of course play on here with all you Cats also:) ..Sick of painting for today.
airarts
04-01-2007, 12:58 PM
All I can say is, WOW, and shut up about being a mess! You really pulled it off Dell :clapping2: I knew you could do it! YAEH DELL! You completed my natrural high today!!!!!! I am smiling so hard right now, both on the inside, and the outside. I wish I could paint, but not until Tuesday night. I have to study for exams, and even then, I am sooo happy!!!!
airarts
04-01-2007, 01:03 PM
I forgot to post your pics upright!
All I can say is, WOW, and shut up about being a mess! You really pulled it off Dell :clapping2: I knew you could do it! YAEH DELL! You completed my natrural high today!!!!!! I am smiling so hard right now, both on the inside, and the outside. I wish I could paint, but not until Tuesday night. I have to study for exams, and even then, I am sooo happy!!!!
Thanks so much Big K...I'm still not to excited about it..But i rarely am with anything i do...The hair is annoying me a bit...Looks more brown, dirty blond..Than the bright blond/White it really is....I'm guessing i could scratch the hell outta it?..then hit the scratches with a yellow/tanish mix?........I guess i did pull off the old look though....looks like someone rolled him in the dirt and snapped a pic.hehe...
Aww well it's only the first....First time i've tried wrinkles and folds of clothing also..I'm not impressed with it, But it's a start i suppose...
Still can't figure it out, But i hate the way the pics look "right side up"..Haha!..Some reason they look much better sideways...(weird)....Looks alright in person, Just odd on the computer.:)........Thanks again my Friend!!
Nuther Question....When it comes time to Varnish....Can it be wetsanded like normal Clear?...Say put down 3-4 coats....wetsand nice and smooth than hit it with a good wet coat?........Just my experience with any paint out of a Spray can goes on pretty bumpy (orange peely)..Thought i may be able to sand and help it a bit..Maybe not, I dunno?
colourshift
04-01-2007, 01:58 PM
Dude, get automotive custom OUT of your head. No, lol, you can't lay on a bunch of varnish and wet sand it...
I'd say one coat should do it, if you put it on with spray. It's just to protect the paint, gives the ability to clean it...but shouldn't have a mirror finish. I like satin, or mix it to nearly mat finish... as I can't stand glare on my pieces.
airarts
04-01-2007, 02:22 PM
colourshift is right on the money!!!! Dell, you are too about the hair. You can build layers that way, so it goes in multiple directions. That way it won't look so contrive! That is what Dru taught me anyways....
Dude, get automotive custom OUT of your head. No, lol, you can't lay on a bunch of varnish and wet sand it...
Yes Mistress Lynne!!:rockon: (that's the correct term if i remember correctlyLOL).
...I will repeat 3 times before touching any Canvas...."This is not a Car IdiotSpoon, Get yer Ass outta yer little Box and do it right"..haha!...Sound about right???
Once again thanks for saving me you guys:clapping2: ....Hope to return the favor one day!
colourshift
04-01-2007, 03:06 PM
Lol... honestly, if anyone called me that in all seriousness, I would fall outta my chair laughing. You're welcome Dell, chances are, it'll be me hitting you up for advice in the near future...
xo
Well i guess here is the final deal....Talked to my pal who this is for last night...He didn't want me to touch anything cept for the hair....So i played around today, Here is what i ended up with.
Turned out to be quite the Thread here....Thanks to all who tried to help me...Hopefully someone "New" can learn from this in their attempts on Canvas...I know i got this page bookmarked for a refresher when i need it.:clapping2:
airarts
04-02-2007, 01:02 PM
OMG Dell, great work! You really need to get this in a photograph for a portfolio piece. It will be just an added area of variation on your skills. Awsome. Take a picture outside where it is well lit, that way the "flash" won't mess with you. :clapping2:
OMG Dell, great work! You really need to get this in a photograph for a portfolio piece. It will be just an added area of variation on your skills. Awsome. Take a picture outside where it is well lit, that way the "flash" won't mess with you. :clapping2:
Thank you Karrine!!
I still am a stickler for things I do..(never like to call it done)....As with most people, My family is the most thrilled with my work....My Father took the Portrait around locally to show some people that were curious....Small town Post office and 2 stores where everyone knows me and what i do..But never get to see to much....Said, All he heard was OMG!!!."I can't believe he did that"!..Even the occasional old lady and redneck dudes strolling in were flipping out over it. "Is that hand painted?"..."I've never seen anyone do that", Type reactions.....Got some orders for new Portraits too:clapping2:
I know it's not the quality of all yer guys awesome art...But people around here never get to see that type of thing...Population 450, I'm willing to bet nobody does this type of thing good or bad.
..I couldn't have gotten this far with out all yer help....Hope to get better with every new attempt...I hope to do you all proud!....As of now...Gotta admit i'm kinda happy about the whole deal.....Thanks again all!
Holy Hell!....Finished that like 4hrs ago....Paps went cruzin the Town showing it to random Cats...I got 7 possible new customers since then...The Local watering hole wants me to put a sign up to advertise...The owner said she had heard of me from people in the bar..But never seen anything in person...Now she's all excited....Yaaaaay Me:partyalone:
Just thought i'd share in my Glee!!
XZOTIC INK
04-02-2007, 04:08 PM
OUTSTANDING,,,PUT IN YOUR PORTFOLIO,,,,this must be displayed immediately!! go go go dell....:headbang: :music-smiley-026: :party-smiley-050: :makeout: :reiter: :ybeer1: :1071: :rockon: :music:
Hahaha..Thanks Nat.
.I put it on my Site...Bout as much "Portfolio" as i got....But it's on it's own new page and hope to add many more bigger and better:partyalone:
hahaha..Just gotta sort through my nonsense!!..Weeeeeeee:bounce:
I agree though...So much help from all who played..Good stuff!
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