lettering quills & outliners???

[KewlKustomPaint]

I just did my first lettering on my back window and I didn't have the proper brushes so it's not the best but i'm learning.
I know I need improvement and I think some lettering quills,one strokes and outliners will help make it a little easier to improve.
I know it's not all the brushes and the person doing it but I think with practice,practice,practice I can become good at sign lettering.
what i need is reccomendations on sizes and or brands
many seem to use the Mack quills but I have heard some using schraff but can't find them on the Net.
I'm thinking of size 1and 2 for outliners and
a size 5 quill and maybe a few more sizes
and then some varies size onestrokes and wondering what those of you who do lettering use.
I'm using 1 shot Sign paint

[JimmyG]

QHF online in Columbia, SC.....(Quill, Hair & Ferrule)
http://store.qhfonline.com/onlinestore/results.cfm?Category=FA&subcat=ALL

I am quite fond of my Scharff grey quills....They are highest quality and likewise more expensive....They have more "snap" than some of the other highend brushes like Luco or French Master....Their quill bindings have more wires than other quills which translates to a longer lasting brush....
Luco quills are quite nice with less snap which takes more hand control......
Langnickels used to be a fine brush, but seeing with my last order of Langnickel quills their quality has way decreased....Langnickel flats are still very fine brushes though....
Mack quills and flats are most excellent entry level brushes....Their quality is quite good and what's best are less expensive....

As far as sizes go, I must say start with #3 and buy every size up to #12......You will learn much more if you can from the beginning learn how much each size "spreads" when your paint thin is correct.....
Most of my larger quills size 14-28 are Lucos that I've had for many years....The are limpy with clean corner snaps and used on large stuff.....

Brown hair quills and truck flats are very soft haired, limpy, and best suited for very smooth surfaces like glass and high gloss painted surfaces....In my many years of hand painting, I used the grey quills the most because the types of painted surfaces were sign panel MDO and such.....

Start with the grey squirrels and when you get the handling techniques worked out, try a few brown squirrel brushes....By then you will have your paint thinning worked out and will feel the difference....

Outliners......I have every brand in 1/8" metal ferrule flats and pick the brand to how I feel that day....actual outline sizes vary slightly with each brand, and if one don't work right I picka another......Round ferrule outliners are harder to snap sharp corners.....

Last but not least, Love your brushes and clean them properly, Store them properly and they will love you in return.....

[Whit]

What Jimmy said !!!

[KewlKustomPaint]

thanks Jimmy, after seeing the price of the Scharff I think i'm gonna go with the Macks to start out with,not like i'm a pro or doing this everyday so the Mack's should be fine to begin with.
I plan on getting some brush preservative to use on my brushes so they last.

[JimmyG]

Macks will work fine to start off....Once you learn what brush sizes you like handling, buy a few Scharff brushes to know quality of "snap".....

while you are researching your "what to buy" take special note of the brush hair lengths of similar brands.....the length of the hairs has much to do with hand control ability and paint delivered to the surface in smoothe strokes.....

[KewlKustomPaint]

yah I was reading that about the different Mack series brushes on the lenghths and different hairs and what works best on what surface or which holds more paint.
I'm sure I will be buying more brushes in the future when I get better but for now my budget is aimed more towards the Mack brushes to get started.
next thing is i will have to practice strokes and learning the turn the brush in my hand.
once again something i'm gonna need lots of practice with.
oh well buy some brushes and break out the 1 shot and practice my ABC's and 123's ,LOL
sorta like kindergarden,haha

[JimmyG]

after learning to turn the brush in your hand comes the corner snaps...inside and outside corners and points....

[KewlKustomPaint]

well you might have to explain that to me if you can,hehe i'm really new to all this but eager to learn.

[Skids]

thanks for that linky Jimmy! do they have a showroom?

Kewl, I use "the virus" for outlining and it does pretty good concidering that its not real hair. I've got langnickel lettering quills that are over 15 yrs old and still work well! sorry to hear their new stuff and up to snuff.

[KewlKustomPaint]

I got my quills and outliners yesterday,I got the Macks to start with then maybe down the line pick up some Scharff brushes if I take to this lettering.I need to order some one strokes as Coast Airbrush didn't list any from Mack.I'll look at Dickblick or TCP Global and see who has the best prices on onestrokes.

[Skids]

looking forward to your reviews Kewl!

[KewlKustomPaint]

Well mark I won't know how good of a review I can give as i really don't know what i'm doing yet,LOL
I need lots of practice but I wouldn't really know if the brushes are crap or good or if it's just me that sucks,LOL,Cause I never done lettering before or before looking knew what the proper brushes were.It's all a learning expierence for me but i'm hoping to have some fun with it and if I get good which I hope it's something that I can be Johnny on the Spot with at bike shows as you really can't airbrush at a bike event but you can stripe and letter as long as it's 1Shot or enamel stripe paint.

[JimmyG]

only dedicated practice will get you there Jeff......

have you gathered any info templates on learning the basic brush strokes that makes all hand lettering possible....?
(twirling curves, snapping corners, even 1 stroke straight lines vertical and horizontal, etcetera?)


....

[KewlKustomPaint]

I got some info from a woman who went to a sign school and she sent me copies of the book of lettering.I'll get some more litterature and read up on the basics and then jump in cause nothing helps more then just doing it and practice,practice, practice. I know I have much to learn and I'm just a beginner and don't expect to measure up to you pros' but If I can learn maybe someday I will be atleast average if I'm lucky. I'm not too concerned to do it for a living or a business just something to add to my kustom paint abilities down the road.Right now I'm just doing it for myself for fun and seeing if I have the knack for it or not but I will give it my all.I do want to learn all about it but I don't plan on doing it for a business just something I can offer on the side as extra income if i'm able to do it that is.I had to get the proper brushes before attempting to even try but that is why I tried lettering my window with artist brushes just to see wether I might be able to do it before I invested more money on lettering brushes and supplies.I already had some 1 Shot paints for stripin' so I just needed the quills and outliners.I'm learning more about the different brushes and I will be reading and research the techniques on lettering.

[JimmyG]

doing "basic strokes exercises" every day or so will get you there much faster.....

....

[KewlKustomPaint]

yah it has the strokes as well as the lettering and some instruction.I will read up and then start practicing the basic strokes over and over

[Skids]

ya got stabilos too.....a definate plus! Now all ya need is a pounce wheel. I seem to recall when I was learning that a punching bag came in handy!

[KewlKustomPaint]

actually the pounce wheel is the the airbrush case I have

[Whit]

As you become more familiar with letters,,, you'll find they
all have a personality of their own,,, I'm talkin EACH letter,,,
not just fonts,,, but letters !!! Fonts just give you more letters !!!
Just a quick lil tip here,,, the rounds (O's,, S's,, U's) all "Break"
the line on tops and bottoms,,, that means they just go a
"TAD" over and under your line for your normal letters !!!
They're actually larger than the other letters !!!
Okay,, that's the "Tip O tha Day" !!!

[JimmyG]

Right On Whit !!! and if you don't make your curved letters slightly over, your words and kerning will never look right in a line of copy....

[KewlKustomPaint]

thanks for the tip

[KewlKustomPaint]

Is there a place you can buy the cardboard that has the shiney coating on it for paleting your brushes.alls we have at work is the brown cardboard and that would soak up the paint.
I have seen the thin cardboard with the white coating on one side but don't know where o get it,maybe a craft store but online sources seem to have a better price

[JimmyG]

just plain brown cardboard works fine Jeff.....paint it once with some 1-shot to prime it......the more colors ya paint next just makes your palette better....
I use use cardboard rectangles with holes cut in them for my 3 ounce paper cups...quite handy when one works off the table toward the easel or a vehicle....

Here's a couple pictures of how I do it with lettering palettes....easy as sliced peaches and vienie weenies.........

...

[Stang]

What a wealth of information. I've seen guys use magazines, or automotive paint stores have pads for mixing bondo. I like your set up Jimmy.

[KewlKustomPaint]

Stang,
those pads are called Clean Sheets.

Jimmy thanks again for the tips,It's good to know what the professionals are using or these little secrets on what makes things easier.I love the world of internet forums as there is a wealth of knowledge and well you can buy all kind of books or DVD's and you might never get all these tips as mostly they tend to stay more focused on the technique then on these tips that make things easier for us.

Before there was Internet you either had to apprentice to learn this stuff or pay money at a school of some sort .Now with Internet forums you can simply ask and someone will sure to give you an answer.

Thanks to all who share their knowledge and help those of us just beginning