View Full Version : Another Vinyl ordeal
this is an older thread I asked the sign fellers here in staff about....But ended up being some great info in here they said it should be out for all to see, so this one is done and gone, but some useful tid bits throughout.
My Aunts hubby. He's a computer guru and train engineer....He's building a train simulator for a museum in Toronto....I have to paint 5 huge ass control panels for him.
But he needs a bit of Vinyl work too....I think he explains it well so here's a copy:
[quote] As for the vinyl, this is to make a set of 4 plexiglass number boards. The lettering font is the same as a road sign. I believe it is called "Clearview." I have a font file for it so it is no big deal to provide that. The way they are made is the black vinyl numbers are applied to the back side in a mirror image. Then you cover the entire back with white vinyl. These are installed in the front of lights so at night you can tell what the locomotive number is. The vinyl side is on the bulb side. The numbers are about 7" tall and the whole panel is 8" X 24". All of this is approximate. I can provide more accurate details when we get closer. [end quote]
I also asked him about the heat from the lightbulbs. I know you guys have all sorts of vinyl and need to know what kind of abuse it'll see..He wrote back this:
[quote] The two bulbs are 50W each so it is not too hot. I have seen number boards made with paint and vinyl and neither seem to be affected by the heat. (Not sure if it is high temp vinyl.) A locomotive spends most of its time outside so maybe the cooler air helps. Mine will be inside a garage so it really won’t get that hot in there. [end quote]
I told him I'd ask my sign pals for an estimate, if one of you guys are interested?...Just a ballpark figure. Or if you'd need more info, I can ask him.
Thanks much!!
Here's a pic of an example, (not his train or numbers)
bigwater
02-19-2010, 09:18 AM
So is this lit with incadenscent or flourescent? What he's describing is pretty standard for a backlit panel. It doesn't even have to be vinyl, but that's the easiest way. Either paint or stick vinyl in a reverse, then flood coat the entire back side of the panel in a translucent white paint. You can easily do this yourself with nothing more than a couple of cans of the right brand of rattle can paint and a mask for the lettering.
JimmyG
02-19-2010, 10:38 AM
I agree....black letters can be plastic paint or vinyl.....the white would need to be translucent vinyl or translucent paint like GripFlex or Lacryl brand made for painting lighted signs....
If you paint, you need to paint the blank in front of a flourescent light fixture so you can see your spray coverage...
He got back to me and it seems he doesn't mind going the paint route..Sooo I think that will be the ticket...Just need to get the black letters cut (in reverse)....I'm waiting for him to give me the exact size and the actual numbers he needs.
Jimmy you have any reliable links to that paint?...I could google it but never know who the hell yer ordering from..lol....Could get that Krylon fusion in a spray can, (as Ron said) But I hate spray cans and the nearest wallmart is a 45min, drive...Rather just order something if it's not to expensive..haha
Not sure on the lightbulbs...he said it doesn't get very hot..I'd think if he used flourescent's it wouldn't have any heat..So I'm guessing incandescent.
Thanks fellers!
bigwater
02-19-2010, 06:15 PM
Well the GripFlex that Jimmy mentioned is the best, but it's also the very expensive stuff that I explained to you in IM earlier today. Your panel is only 24" x 8". You're talking about a 20 second spritz with a rattle can of Rustoleum plastic. Hate it all you want, or spend $400 on a five gallon bucket of GripFlex, because they don't sell white GripFlex in less than a five gallon bucket. Your call.
Well the GripFlex that Jimmy mentioned is the best, but it's also the very expensive stuff that I explained to you in IM earlier today. Your panel is only 24" x 8". You're talking about a 20 second spritz with a rattle can of Rustoleum plastic. Hate it all you want, or spend $400 on a five gallon bucket of GripFlex, because they don't sell white GripFlex in less than a five gallon bucket. Your call.
Ohhhhh, didn't grasp that it was the same stuff you mentioned earlier....Yip, krylon wins in my cheap ass category!..haha
Thanks bud, still havn't heard from him yet on the number specifics.
JimmyG
02-19-2010, 11:36 PM
Lacryl backing white by Spraylat (same folks now owns 1-Shot) is still available in gallons, about 70 bucks or so a gallon, and you need the reducer/cleaner with it (30 bucks)....It's the same similar plastic paint as GripFlex...I have not found black in quarts for ya yet, but about 65 bucks a gallon for black....
Lemme know if ya need supplier links...
Thanks Jimmy...For the size of what i'd be doing I could get away with a pint or so....So the ole Krylon fusion is probably the best option for this...Unless they sell that in smaller sizes?
Heard back from him
[Quote]
I need 4 sets of the "5008" number board. The height of each letter is 7”.
I also attached the RoadGeek Font file. This is the letter style of the number boards. It looks like the E style is a pretty close but I’ll let you decide for sure.
I also attached a couple photos of a similar number board made at the same place that the original 5008 ones were made. It is 1/8” clear plexi-glass with the black letters put on the back side. Then they applied a layer of white vinyl over the top of that. I guess they are not worried about the heat from the bulbs. One of the photos shows how they made it from the back side.
If we paint these, will we have the issues of the paint shrinking and flaking off? I have a bunch of other number boards where this is the case. Maybe it is because they used cheap paint. [Quote]
I can't figure out how to open that font file, so no clue what it looks like....But maybe it works for you guys.
I spose I could tell him the krylon for plastic should hold up, but honestly I have no clue...I just don't use the stuff....Thinking if the ones he has now have Vinyl on them, he must be fine with how it looks...(The Translucency)
what do you guys think, Risk the Krylon cracking in the heat form the bulbs, or use vinyl that will barely allow the light through??...lol
Thanks fellers!
he just got back to me again...Said he'd like to go with the white vinyl back..Said even if it's not as translucent as the paint would be..It should at least look the same as the original he has now...Maybe the damn things don't light up all that much, I dunno.
Maybe a thinner vinyl would work better?
JimmyG
02-21-2010, 08:18 PM
Dell, sorry I been "tied up" some this week so couldn't answer ya....
Go here to download a trial version of WinRAR to unlock your RoadGeekfonts....
http://www.rarlab.com/ http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
I think the one you will need is trial version is WinRAR x86(32bit) 3.92.....from the 2nd link above...
Oracal 8500 (high performance 7 year) is what I use in translucent white for the backing...my supplier has it here....& by the CTL (cut to length)...Oracal also has series 8100 as 3 year translucent....the Oracal color number for translucent white is #010....it is 3mil translucent vinyl....
http://www.alumapanel.com/products.cfm?step=1&lines_ID=400
Thanks indeed Jimmy!
I do have winrar actually....But when i looked to extract that it had a list of like 7 things that made no damn sense to me..lol......I just went back and clicked "extract here" That popped everything up I could click on and look at....I'd guess it is the "E style" font.....I rarely use that winrar thing, so just still figuring it out.
he wants to know if there is a price diff from the 7 year vinyl to the 3 year stuff....I know buying a big ass role would change the price..but what he's going to need? nooooo clue.
he said the only reason he asks is because he suspects that rating is for UV exposure and these wont see any UV..so he doesn't need the higher end stuff....But any price diff for that little amount, I'd guess a few bucks..but I'm not a vinyl guy ;)
Really appreciate the help fellers, sorry to be a pain in the ass....But I do enjoy the schoolin on such things.
He's still dealing with the museum on the final details, said if it goes through he'd have parts here around march 15th...So that's when all this shit would start rolling.
JimmyG
02-22-2010, 07:49 PM
Go with Oracal 8500....Ron has it on hand or you can find it easy to order CTL (cut to length)...
I shouldn'ta mentioned 3 year translucent....my bad...8500 is easier to apply with less bubbles around the reverse cut black letters and so looks better from the front....
Go with Oracal 8500....Ron has it on hand or you can find it easy to order CTL (cut to length)...
I shouldn'ta mentioned 3 year translucent....my bad...8500 is easier to apply with less bubbles around the reverse cut black letters and so looks better from the front....
Ahhh spiffy, thanks much Jimmy!
bigwater
02-23-2010, 07:54 AM
Wouldn't be a price difference from me, because I have the 8 year in stock but would have to go buy the 3 year stuff. I take that back. There probably would be a price difference. I'd probably charge more for 3 year stuff just for the hassle of having to go get it. ;)
I'd probably charge more for 3 year stuff just for the hassle of having to go get it. ;)
hahaa, sounds right ta me. :D
A quick rundown, until I get the measurements....(To save you rereading this whole thing)....I'll need 16 numbers, (4 sets of 4, post #9 has an example pic), Need 4 sets of the same number "5008" in black reverse cut vinyl.
and 4 sections of the white Oracal 8500...Or one long piece I can cut to size (need to measure 1st tho)
I think that's everything..haha...Much obliged if ya can help..
also on those reverse cut letters, do you reverse them in photoshop/vector 1st? (should I do that)...I dunno how that works on the plotter end of things...Thanks!!
Dell,,, one of these days you'll discover the world of plotters,,,
the images on the tailgate your working on could have been vectored/cut
with paint-mask and applied,,, saving you tons of time (time shows in your rendering)
leaving minor detail to freehand,,, when you do get a plotter (and you will,, in time)
you'll wonder how you ever made it without it !!!
Good Show on that tailgate !!!
i dont think this worked
oh the eps is showing...will try the other pic again..supposed to be 2...33590
k thats all messed up , but can ya let me know if it works....The Eps?.....should be vectored and sized to what I need...But I sent did the jpeg with measuments in case its off......Just trying this, no rush.....also does the vector need to be reversed?....the sticky side needs to be on the front...
bigwater
10-08-2010, 07:11 AM
I'll take a look at it when I get to the shop later this morning. If what your saying is that when looking at this the way it reads 5008 you should be staring at the glue, then yes, it will need to be reversed, but that's no problem. I can flip it myself.
ok, thanks Ron....yup will need to be reversed then.....going on the back side off clear plexi, so the numbers will be readable from the front.....just talked to the guy this morn, still in no hurry....so if you get time is all, once i get ya everything you need to do er up, will drop the cash in the post.
bigwater
10-08-2010, 10:13 AM
The .eps came through at 21.907" x 6.287". If I keep the height and width proportional, stretching it to 22.5" wide makes it 6.457" tall and the stroke width right under 1-1/8". If I stetch the height to 7", it makes the width 24.391" a stroke width of right at 1-1/4". I can make it disproportional at exactly 22.5"x7", but it is slighly squished with the horizontal strokes being thicker than the vertical strokes... not by a lot but enough to be noticed by a trained eye. Which way do you want to go with it?
hmmmm, after much measuring and scratching my head..lol... Could you stretch it (keeping it proportional) to 23" wide x (whatever that does to the height) i think that would work......24" wide is pushing it a bit with the room I have, being slightly under 7" tall is ok though.
sorry to make ya go through it...I fought with that damn thing for days trying to get it how I wanted..lol
bigwater
10-08-2010, 02:44 PM
Damn son... if you gotta fight for days over four cut numbers, you need to stick to painting ;) 23" wide makes it 6.601" tall, with a stroke of 1-1/8". How many of these do you need?
haha..I hear ya...always had that prob of getting the size I want to work in computer land...Printin is a bitch too..lol
That size will work fine, thanks.
Need 4 sets of those, reverse cut, in black....No need to weed.
and need 4 sheets of the white Oracal 8500, 27" wide x 9.5 tall (or a big chunk that lets me cut those 4 sections out of it) those measurments give me some trim room.
bigwater
10-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Cool... I'll get these cut either over the weekend or the first part of next week. Will probably just send you a hunk of the translucent 20" long. The roll is 54" wide, so that should give you what you need. If not, speak up.
bigwater
10-18-2010, 08:55 AM
Bones arrived on Saturday. Product will be shipping out today. What you'll be getting is Oracal 3850 translucent. It's exactly the same thing as the Oracal 8500, it's just the inkjet receptive version so it's not available in colors. It has a the same life rating (7 years) as the 8500 has. Turns out I didn't have any 8500 white in stock.
http://www.oracal.com/products/product.asp?seriesID=169
http://www.oracal.com/products/product.asp?seriesID=211
Just got home and saw the box...(been gone since wed)...Opened it up and all looks great...Didnt have to use yer transfer tape, I got some..lol...But thanky
bigwater
10-22-2010, 05:52 PM
Glad you got it okay. Explanation on the transfer tape... it's just built into the process. If you don't weed it shortly after plotting, the glue can run back together between the cut lines and make it extremely difficult, if not impossible to weed. Once it's weeded, if you don't tape it you risk lifting corners of the edges in the process of handling it. It just goes without saying. Plot, weed, tape all at once. It makes things easier on the customer, and in the long run, on you.
didnt know that on the glue...leanrt somethin new today, thanks again.....will get this thread dissected and some progress pics in the next few....Guy's outta town for 2 weeks, so Im still slackin..lol
Customer was more than happy with the results:boogie:
Not sure if I've shown these anywhere else in here...But these are the control stands I did (6 of them)....Where in horrible shape, he found them in a train graveyard in Mexico...Takes 3 guys to lift the damn things..lol
Had to do some bondo work, grind, clean for days..lol..Flat black on the outside and gloss white on the inside.
Really cool project.these are the actual stands you'd drive the train with..From what I can understand he figured out a way to power them (running through a laptop) when they are all together you could set this thing up in your living room and learn to drive a train (an old train anyway)...3 of these went to a museum in Toronto Canada, 2 got sold to individuals and he kept one himself....He's also getting ready to send me another one.
35246352473524835249
AndyW
02-08-2011, 08:10 PM
They scrubbed up very nice indeed Dell.
JimmyG
02-08-2011, 10:27 PM
really cool stuff Dell....the numbers look good also....
flyer615
02-08-2011, 10:42 PM
Nice lookin stuff, dude. When he told his kids to "Open up. Here comes the choo choo," he wasn't trying to get them to eat! Looks like a fun project.
Looks like they be in good runnin order,,,
think they could make it as far as the Sunday Show ???
Sure would look Good in there,,, could even make a vid of'm
runnin thru tha snow,,, chasin a jeep or somethin (hahaha)
They did turn out pretty nice tho,,, Good Show !!!
.
.
edit,,,,,
serious about the Show tho,,, thro'm in there,,,
makes for some good variety for conversation !!!
sharonsstudio
02-09-2011, 07:42 AM
Great Job Dell... Where's the Train? I thought you were going to paint a real Train?? Jk.. Looks Great..
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.8 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.