Airbrush virgin - help!

[Lottieloo]

Hello. I would really appreciate some help. I have bought a Spraymaster Dual Action airbrush and a piston type mini air compressor. The compressor is working and the airbrush appears to work .... except that when I fill the cup with (diluted acrylic) paint, nothing happens. Although air comes through the airbrush, no paint follows. Am I just not doing something basic and obvious to release the paint from the cup and into the brush, or does it mean I have bought a faulty airbrush? Thank you. Lottieloo (Gloucestershire,UK)

[corey]

is the needle chuck tightened? If you unscrew the handle you will be able to see the back of the needle. There is a nut there. When you depress and pull back on the handle does the needle move back too?

[AndyW]

Also did you strain the paint, it may have clogged, another indication is bubbles in the paint cup, but as corey says remove the cover, even slacken the nut spin the needle to make sure it is seated properly and tighten again, pull the trigger back as mentioned to make sure the needle moves.

[corey]

If its the airbrush Im thinking it is it has a adjustable handle to control paint flow. Its a screw at the back of the handle that when tightened down only allows the needle to move back so far. Also if the airpressure is below 15 psi it wont srpay. There may also be a pressure control valve on the bottem of the brush and if it is closed to far it wont let it spray either.

[Lottieloo]

Thank you very much for replying Corey and Draggie 650. The psi is 25; I loosened the pressure control valve as much as it would (very little); also the screw at end of handle; the needle chuck isn't tight and the needle does move back when trigger is depressed but alas it is still not spraying paint. Any other suggestions would be most appreciated.

[corey]

Will it spray just water?

[Lottieloo]

No Corey - I tried that too. When I pull the trigger back, although the needle moves back towards the handle, nothing appears to move when you look down into the cup holder hole at the front. I just wonder if this is as it should be? I'm really wondering now if the airbrush is faulty and I should return it. Thank you so much for trying to help.

[corey]

Let me see if I can find a diagram for the brush. It sounds like the nozzle is clogged but it shouldnt be.

[corey]

is this the one you have?

[corey]

Take the handle off the brush completely and loosen the needle chuck nut. Pull the needle back about a centimeter. Then fill the cup with water. By not having the needle seated the water should drip out.

[Lottieloo]

Hi corey,
this is the model:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spraymaster-Multi-Purpose-Precision-Dual-Action-decorating/dp/B000VE9XK8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=toys&qid=1270804851&sr=8-8
I did as you suggested. I even undid the spring case and tried pulling the needle out completely but it wouldn't come out. Lottieloo.

[corey]

Here is a basic diagram of your brush. Part number 16 is the needle chuck. when this is tightened it tightens the needle into the trigger which is why when you pull the trigger back it pulls the needle back. to remove the needle this needs to be loosened. After loosening this chuck you should be able to grab the needle and pull it back out of the brush. The reason you only want to pull the needle back about a half an inch or about 2 cm is that the needle also holds the trigger in place and it will fall out if you completely remove the needle.
Also another reason the airbrush may not spray paint is if part #2 is not sealed.
Back to the needle though. After the chuck nut is loose if you cannot pull the needle back that means it has been pushed in to hard and is stuck in the nozzle. Which is part #3. This part is brass and is soft. Hopefully it did not split the nozzle if this happened. You can use a pair of pliers and twist the needle as you pull back on it.
This diagram is for a iwata hiline which yours is a knock off of.

[rayf24]

just as a double check take the nose cap off and make sure the needle is moving back could be the tip has broken off in the tip body and looks ok when rear cover is off if this has happened you will still get air but no paint.

[Lottieloo]

Corey - I am so grateful that you have stuck with me and spent so much time,patience and effort trying to help. Your diagram confirmed that I was at least looking at the right parts. I followed everything on your latest and rayf24's (thank you rayf24) posts. I wish I could say that it worked but I can't.
I was able to pull the needle further out than I had been able to before and on putting it back I realised for the first time that on pulling the trigger, it hadn't actually been the needle I had previously seen moving back (duh!), but the spring in the spring case moving back over the needle.
So to confirm: when using the airbrush to release the paint from the cup, on pulling back on the trigger, should the whole needle move back? - out of the tiny nozzle at the front and into the handle at the back .... because it doesn't, even with the pressure control valve, needle chuck, and adjusting screw at end of handle all loosened. Many thanks and kind thoughts.

[sharonsstudio]

Lottilou.. when spraying water cover the nozzle, do you have bubbles comming up into the cup?

and you are thinning the paint to a skim milk consistancy?

[Lottieloo]

Hi Sharon - so just tried that .. no bubbles. Is that good or bad?! I've only been using water since trying to find the problem but when I originally tried paint I watered it down pretty well. Lottieloo

[corey]

I would send the brush back and have them swap it for a different one.

[rex]

is the adjusting nut GOOD AND TIGHT, at the end of the spring assembly, my talon has to be real tight for the needle to move, if the only thing moving is the spring assembly, that could be yer problem

[Lottieloo]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!! Brilliant - it is working! I don't know what I did; whether I tightened the needle chuck more than I had before, as suggested by rex or whether something just cleared in all my fiddling around with it ..... I don't know. But I have a working airbrush and I am so very grateful to all of you, especially corey, for your help and suggestions. I cannot wait to get going. BLESS YOU. Lottieloo x

[corey]

Yer welcome Lottie. Now let the fun begin. Dont expect to be a pro off the bat that will just aggrivate you. Browse the site here and check out some of the newbie questions. Start out with dots and daggers both of which are essental for any project. Practice practice practice.

[Lottieloo]

I will, corey, thank you. I was so lucky to find this site. Lovely supportive people and lots and lots of useful info. Bless you again.

[sharonsstudio]

Thats what this site is all about HELP when needed.

LL post some pics of your practice and we ca help you along..
or anyo other questions don't hesitate.

[fontgeek]

When you are spraying paint with your airbrush the chucking nut NEEDS to be tight, if it isn't then the needle chuck and trigger don't pull the needle back out of the fluid nozzle, if the needle doesn't pull back then the paint can't go through the nozzle, get atomized, and cover everything with paint.

When in doubt, do a thorough cleaning on your brush and start with a "Clean Slate" so that you can eliminate as many variables as possible when you are trying to resolve issues/problems.

Make sure your paint is properly reduced or thinned, thoroughly mixed, and strained BEFORE it goes into your airbrush. With your airbrush clean and your paint all ready to go you cut out two thirds of the equation needed to airbrush, all that's left is the air source (air pressure and volume) to deal with.

[Lottieloo]

Thank you so much fontgeek for your guidance and advice. I am just beginning to get my head round the mechanics of the airbrush (I think!) All I have to do now is master the technique!

And thank you Sharon for your support. It will be a while yet before I paint anything I'd dare show anyone else!!

One other thing, when you say "thorough cleaning" do you completely dismantle the brush, removing the needle, trigger, spring etc. each time after use? I am terrified of it getting clogged with any residual paint, especially as I use acrylic, but it does seem a bit of a palavar to take the whole thing apart each time.

[HighRisk]

It will be a while yet before I paint anything I'd dare show anyone else!!



How are you going to get better if you dont show your work? Peeps on these boards wont judge your work just cause your a newb. Anyways good luck Lottieloo.

Toddles

[HighRisk]

Im a newb and Ill show my work. Its the only way to get better. Good luck Lottieloo, painting is very addicting.:nature-smiley-003:

Toddles

[fontgeek]

Thank you so much fontgeek for your guidance and advice. I am just beginning to get my head round the mechanics of the airbrush (I think!) All I have to do now is master the technique!

And thank you Sharon for your support. It will be a while yet before I paint anything I'd dare show anyone else!!

One other thing, when you say "thorough cleaning" do you completely dismantle the brush, removing the needle, trigger, spring etc. each time after use? I am terrified of it getting clogged with any residual paint, especially as I use acrylic, but it does seem a bit of a palavar to take the whole thing apart each time.

Lottie, sorry for delay in answering your question, I can only get on this site through a friend's computer.
I tend to do a fairly thorough dismantling of my brush(es) every time I finish a painting session. This includes the removal, cleaning, and inspection of the needle and nozzle caps, the needle itself, and if there is contamination of the trigger-well (the area where the trigger/button goes into the airbrush body) then I disassemble the back end of the brush too.
I try to get and keep my airbrushes as clean and well maintained as possible. Having your brushes clean means means you can help eliminate any questions or problems that may arise from the "air-paint-airbrush" balancing act/equation. Don't submerge your airbrush, doing so is an invitation to disaster, and it can be a very expensive disaster at that.
Drop me a PM or ask me through the forum if you want my cleaning routine.

[corey]

When disassembling your air brush take a whit pillow case and spread it out flat on an open area. This way you can lay the parts out and see them all. First thing i do is a thurough rinse with the proper cleaner for the paints youre working with. Put some cleaner in the cup or bottle and spray through until it comes out clear. Then do a back boil by covering the tip and spraying, this will force air into the cup or bottle dislodging any dried particles. Remove the bottle and pour the cleaner out. Do not try to spray it out it will only cause a clog, same for the cup on a gravity feed. Next remove the handle and loosen the chuck nut. Pull the needle out the rear of the brush twisting it while doing so. The tips are very fragile so be careful not to bump or drag it on anything. The needle guide will fall out the top if you turn the brush over. Do the dis assembly over the pillow case that way if things come out they land on it. Now remove the end cap. Next comes the nozzle cap and finally the nozzle. Your air brush should have come with a small wrench. The nozzle is made of a soft brass and is also very fragile. Now wipe down and clean the parts. Reassembly is reverse of disassmbly. Again the nozzle is soft brass and very fragile. When putting it in do not cross thread it or over tighten it. I know this all sounds pretty scary but it is easier than it sounds.

[fontgeek]

My routine is similar to Corey's but the order is different and there are a few more steps to my practice.
This is rather long in reading, but the actual practice only takes a few minutes to do. I try to explain not only what I do, but the reason why, and the reason for the specific order for doing things. I can send this to you as a pdf file if you would like it, just drop me a pm with your email address, that address will go no further than me for this file.
Here goes.

A couple of things.
First, don't throw your arms up and say you have done everything, if it isn't working now, then obviously you didn't get it all. If you want help, then you have to be willing to listen and think.

You have a blockage in the nozzle cap, or the threads or seat of the nossle are letting air by. The air doesn't go through the nozzle, only the paint does, the two are mixed as they exit the nozzle cap and pass through the needle cap. When the opening for the air in the nozzle cap or needle cap is blocked, it finds the next easiest point of exit, that is typically the paint cup or bottle you are pulling paint from, and that is why the paint "boils".

For cleaning your brush, what thinner or cleaner does the paint label or company tell you to use?
Mixing different thinners or reducers, including water, soap, etc., is a recipe for disaster. You can turn something that would have come out normally into little rocks or gumballs inside your brush.

As far as submerging your brush, not unless it is an absolute last ditch effort to save your brush. Submerging the whole brush subjects areas of the brush to solvents, paints, and all kinds of other crap, that those areas were never meant to be exposed to, it can leave you with all kinds of deposits of solids and filmy coatings that can inhibit or ruin your airvalve assembly, and parts of your trigger assembly, it can make your normal trigger action so that it won't function properly because it is now caked with paint and junk.
As far as putting it in your microwave oven, you are a thrill seeker.
Besides the potential for destroying your microwave by shorting it out, you can cook the Teflon or rubber seals and O-rings that sit inside your brush. If there is enough moisture in the brush to have the microwaves do the damage to the paint, then there is enough to do damage to parts of your airbrush.

My advice, read the labels on your paint(s), follow their instructions for cleaning, make yourself a nice cleaning kit, and follow a good, solid routine EVERYTIME YOU CLEAN YOUR AIRBRUSH, mix and strain your paint, and make sure it is thin enough so that you can work with it, do all that BEFORE it goes into the brush. Even if it is old paint, if it is reduced, mixed, and strained, it can still be sprayed, it may not stick or look like it is supposed to, but if you have it at the clean liquid consistency it should be, then you can always dump it out and clean your brush like you normally should without any problems.

If you want a good cleaning routine, do a search or ask, but avoid mixing your solvents for different kinds of paints, do not use Windex or ammonia based cleaners in your brush, I would also avoid things like Fantastik, 409, and other household cleaners, they can cause damage too.

For my cleaning, I;
Dump out the excess paint from my brush.

I then use a paper towel and wipe out as much as I possibly can, this cuts out a whole lot of water or solvent use.

I then use the correct solvent to rinse and dump solvent from the reservoir until it stays clean.

I then loosen the needle chucking nut, and pull the needle back about a half inch, then tighten the chucking nut up again. With the needle held securely in the brush, I half-fill the reservoir with clean solvent, then I put a finger or cloth over the tip of the airbrush, and push down on the trigger so that I have full air flowing back through the nozzle, the paint passage, and into the fluid/paint reservoir, this is typically called backflushing or boiling. This step pushes any and all pant remnants out of the fluid nozzle, and flushes out the paint reservor.
Dump the contaminated solvent out, refill the reservoir again, and repeat the process until the solvent stays clean. I backflush before I spray out solvent so that I avoid pushing solids or debris into the nozzle itself, if I can clear those solvents BEFORE I spray solvents out, then it saves me time and work, and saves my brush the potential damage from the debris, the disassembly, the cleaning itself, or the re-assembly of the brush.

I fill the reservoir with clean solvent again, then I loosen the needle chucking nut, and pump the needle in and out of the airbrush, I only use short strokes of about an three quarters of an inch. This process, typically called pumping, gets rid of the paint build up in and around the needle packing/seals/bearing. Watch the fluid reservoir, it will probably go cloudy with the paint again. Dump the contaminated solvent, put clean solvent in, and repeat the process until the solvent stays clean. Once the solvent stays clean, I push the needle all the way forward again, then tighten up the needle chuck.

I then spray the solvent out of the brush like I would paint. For me, I spray into a large, clear jar with a paper towel held over the top, I watch the opposite side of the jar when I am spraying, I can see wen the brush stops spraying pigment out. The jar keeps the mess confined, and the paper towel over the top keeps me from having overspray or fumes flooding the room.
I keep spraying clean solvent through until it sprays through nice and clean.
Next I clean the needle cap and nozzle cap, to remove any remnants of paint left behind. I spray some more solvent through to flush anything that might have been left behind.

I then loosen the needle chuck again and remove the needle from the airbrush. I wipe it down to make sure it is nice and clean, and set it safely aside.

I then use brushes, Q-tips, and sometimes tooth picks to clean out the paint cup, especially the little trough at the bottom of the cup. The Q-tips kind of work like a white glove test, any contamination shows up on the pure white cotton. The toothpicks work well for getting any paint that might remain in sharp corners, the wood or bamboo toothpicks won't scratch or damge the airbrush body like the steel of a pick or pipecleaner might.

With all the internal parts and areas clean, I do a good double check to make sure it is all nice and clean, I then put the needle cap and nozzle cap back on the brush, then I use Aerolube to lube the needle, then I slide it back into the airbrush, I don't have to remove the trigger assembly or the needle chuck, spring, or the rest, just the needle itself.

With the inside of the brush nice and clean, I then proceed to give the outside a good going over. Doing the cleaning in this order lets me know the status of my brushes just by looking at them, if the outside is clean, then I know the inside is too.

Doing the first part in the order shown keeps you from pushing junk into the nozzle, leaving you with an even bigger mess to work on.

ALWAYS work over a contained area, a bowl or roasting pan works great. This keeps your parts in a nice findable area, and when you drop some of those parts, and you will, you won't have to be scrougning around on your hands and knees looking for an expensive part, it also keeps any spills or solvent from making a mess of your shop or table.

ALWAYS follow the instructions, work in a safe environment, and wear proper protective gear. That's the only body you get, and this is the only planet we have, and both should remain in good shape.

Probably a whole lot more than you wanted to know, but we have a whole new crop of newbies from the holiday season.
Good luck!

[Gioart]

Some really awesome information fontgeek.

Good stuff.

Gio

[corey]

If i may ask that this thread be moved to the newbie area so that it is easier to find for future newbies who have the same problems?