Auto air and Createx

[Icewolf0927]

I am sorry if this has already been covered but I tried to do a search on this and didn't find anything. I was wondering if it is okay to use createx with auto air. I forgot to get white AA so I was wondering if it was okay to use white createx for my base coat.

Also I have never used AA before and I was wondering if it is okay to spray it right out of the bottle. It sounds like it is thin enough but I could be wrong.

Thanks
Andy

[colourshift]

Andy,
I can't answer your mixing Media question... Clinton or Saint will be along shortly, I'm sure.
As far as it's being "ready to paint", I dunno...I'm not a fan of 40-60 PSI, I tend to shoot at around 20-25. 30 on an odd day. I reduce the hell out of AA paints using their 4010 or 4011 reducer. Don't let the ratio's on the bottle fool you, you can reduce to a milk like consistency and still have great adhesion.
Hon, I'd go out and buy a bottle of white, or sealer white AA...why do all that work and worry when clearcoating it?

[Clinton]

No, simple. Your paint is only as strong as the base you lay it over. Createx is designed for Fabric, Leather, paper ect something it can bit into. On a hard surface it will stick pretty good but once dried it is a closed pore paint which means everything on top is just that laying on top. Auto Air is an open pore paint which means that any layers sprayed on top lay into or fall into the layer beneath. Once Auto Air is cured you pretty much have to sand it off a hard surface to remove it, Createx you'd be able to peel off. Now if you wanted to detail your Auto Air at the end of your project, for some reason. Then go ahead and use FW or Golden ect but not the other way around. Oh and yes you "HAVE" to reduce Auto Air as Lynne said, I recude at least 25% all the way to 400% if need be and spray at about 25 psi.

[colourshift]

I don't think AA is classed as an enamel, D...not like Deka's Sign Air was.

[Icewolf0927]

Thanks guys this helps a lot. I guess I will need to go get the reducer and white paint.

How long after you lay the AA do you have to clear it?

[colourshift]

I'd say it was closer to Createx's fabric paint than anything, but as Clinton said, it's an open pore paint...Urethane clears penetrate ( I said the P word) the auto air through to the base coat, and bond with it there on that level. Denise (Saint) has used it to touch up stuff on her vehicle without clear, and it's lasted years. Tough stuff...
But not like the Deka Sign enamel we knew and loved. That stuff didn't really require a clear, where the AA does.

Saint had this discussion with me when I made the flip to AA from SignAir. She kept stressing it wasn't an enamel. Hopefully she can provide some insight.

It's that, or I talk to the paint rep that I'll see on Sunday, with Mickey....maybe one of those guys can give us a straight answer.

[Clinton]

Ice, that's the great thing about AA it has no topcoat time. You can wait till whenever you feel like topcoating, but if you get oil or grease ect on in the mean time your sol.

Den and Lynne, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this about AA. I beleive after playing with this stuff indepth for the last 3 years or so that it's infact not a water based paint but a waterborne paint. It reacts compleatly differnet than the Acrylic paint I've used, but reacts exactly like the waterborne products I've used. It does not do well mixed with acrylic of any type that I have found. The Golden medium as well as the Createax extender seem to seperate the pigment and you get for a lack of a better word "snot" out of your brush. But it mixes with any of the waterborne products I've tried it with and it is a perfect carrier for consentrated candies for Alsa or the like. So take that for what it's worth but my moneys on waterborne.

[colourshift]

A.D. Cook (airbrushtour.com) recently did Sema, particularly the AA part of it. When he originally posted, he made the mistake of saying waterbourne, not waterbased... I wrote to AA, before I alerted A.D. of his typo (I proof for him on rare occasion)..and they came back and most definately said...water based, not waterbourne.

[Clinton]

Ok so it's something else, but it is most defineatly not Acrylic as we see it on the Golden or Createx form. Maybe some type of mix?? I gues I'll just say this it works and I can spray it in my basement so it's my "Happy Paint" so to speak.:)

[Frog]

:party-smiley-042: :party-smiley-042: Clinton did you say candy concentrates can be mixed in AA reducer ?
Which candy concentrates ?
Is it better than the AA candy ?
What do you mix it with, the medium or the flash medium ?
I was thinking of ordering some AA candies. But I would think concentrates would be a better way to go if they work.

Michael

[Clinton]

Yes you can use Cany consentrates in the Auto Air Transparent base ( # 4004). They work about the same as the Auto Air, I tried it out at the body shop I co own not at home. The problem with using the consentrates is they smell and act as if you were spraying Uros. So you have to wear a resperator ect, where as the Auto Air all you really need is a dust mask and your good. The only reason I tried it out was that Auto Air only has so many colors of candies and i'm not a big fan of the blues they have out. These are the ones I tried out. Just curious why not use the Auto Air if they have the color you need? Anything I've done has been with the Auto Air and I'm very happy with the end result.

http://www.sem.ws/product.php?product_id=171
http://alsacorp.com/products/candyconcentrates/candy_prodinfo.htm

[Frog]

I will still go with AA candies then. Just thought when you said you used the concentrates they might be better.
As I spray at home I dont wanna go anywhere near anything thats even slightly toxic, so thats another tick for AA.

Thanks Clinton.

[Clinton]

I will still go with AA candies then. Just thought when you said you used the concentrates they might be better.
As I spray at home I dont wanna go anywhere near anything thats even slightly toxic, so thats another tick for AA.

Thanks Clinton.

Good call. :)

Ok I was just thinking about this, if this isn't waterborne check this out. I was clearing a display panel a few months ago and desided to do it all in Water based/Waterborne products all the way through to the clear coat. Well the only Waterborne clear that I know if that I can get in Canada is the Varathane Diamond Coat. Which is a Waterborne clear, bought some to use it's meant for wood ect but works fine on metal ect. Once I got ti home and went to clear my panel I noticed it smelled and looked extremly farmilair. If you have a bottle of the Auto Air 4004 transparent base and a bottle of the Diamond coat sitting side by side in unmarked bottles I would put money up that you would not be able to tell the difference. They look smell and spray exactly the same, just one is more of a matte finish than the other. Go to Home Depot and check it out if you have the time. Interesting.:yes:

[Clinton]

Down at the art store I teach at this afternoon and came accross a dinosaur, I was lead to believe there was only three versions of the Auto Air. Well there four and the first one lists the actual paint. :) By the way this was up in there storage room from about 4 years ago not on the shelf.:)

[Clinton]

Actually recieved a reply form Auto Air, here's what I got if anyone is interested.

Dear Clinton Hoines:



Thank you for contacting Auto Air Colors. We appreciate your support and inquiry.



Actually – yes – Auto Air Colors are generally similar to the Createx Airbrush Colors in that they’re a water-based, acrylic polymer-based paint. The Auto Air uses exterior-grade/automotive pigments, surfactants, flow enhancers as well as a co-solvent reducer to achieve finishes acceptable for automotive refinish standards. A water-borne paint is generally oil-based yet not hydro-phobic so it can be mixed with water and contains aggressive chemicals not present in Auto air or in most water-based paints.



Thank you,

So I guess it's a modified Createx paint just like Blake Mcully said at his course.:)

[sharonsstudio]

Okay now I've been reading this thread and kind of lurking.. and Laughing..
I've never thought of using AA for glass does anybody know what the steps are? I can't sand it or scuff it wouldn't look right.. do I clean it with a degreaser or rubbing alcohol? and how would I clear it?

[Shiva]

I've never thought of using AA for glass does anybody know what the steps are? I can't sand it or scuff it wouldn't look right.. do I clean it with a degreaser or rubbing alcohol? and how would I clear it?

and we are painting on WHICH SIDE?
if you are painting on the INSIDE of a window glass-a car for instance, then think the RC body painting.. backwards..

OUTSIDE, like my poor crude picture posted in the beginners gallery?
degrease, dewax, and if you want a solid color under the whole glass, get a can of Krylon FUSION, and use it as the 'car finish'..LOL. black is available.,.thats what I used..
to 'cleane' the glass BEFORE the Krylon, use 409 as the cleaner.. keep it wet for a bit with paper towels, after you did the degrease/dewax stuff.

409 has hydroflouric acid in it, the only thing that WILL etch glass..
(other than sandblasting)

then, take to your favorite local body shop after you are done and have them clear coat it with regular auto clear..

a heat gun in one hand while painting with the AA is VERY handy, however do NOT get the glass too hot in a localized area, it might explode accidently.
you might put the catalist in it? just a thought..