Very fine airbrushing - can't quite achieve what I want

[gphood]

For a long time now I've wanted to really get to grips with really fine detail airbrushing so I can develop my freehand techiniques and incorporate it more into my work but I've never quite got the results I wanted. I normally use solvent basecoats but whatever medium I'm using, when I'm working with white (which I usually am), I have to thin it to stop it from constantly splattering all over my work and to flow properly and it's then too thin to achieve the solid line I want. I've started using HoK's white rather than the white base I would get from my local supplier and it is better but I still have problems. I'm waiting for some samples of E'tac so I can give that a go but I'll give anything a try.

I'm using Iwatas HP-B and HB-C with the B feeling like it's more likely to do what I'm wanting. I don't know what size tip and needle I have - whatever they supply by default.

Can anyone make any recommendations about the type of paint I ought to try (I'm in the UK so can't get some makes that would be easily available in the US, for example), how much to thin it, air pressure, recommended airbrushes and tips - anything like that.

I want to make a concerted effort to sort this out as I would like to get away from relying on handpainting to sort me out when I'm having problems getting the detail I want by airbrushing.

Thanks very much for any help you can give me.

[Clinton]

Replyed to your post on the other forum as well but I'll throw it up here too.

First question would be why are you trying to get detail with white paint? What type of painting are you doing. If you want to acheive highlights you shouldn't be laying white on top you should save your whites. The white in any paint line will give you problems as the pigment is ground larger than any of the other colours. If you really need to do detail the HPB will get you about as fine line as anything you'll buy that will flow white very well, it has a .2mm needle and nozzle your HPC will also work for very nice detail and coems with a .3mm needle nozzle combo.

[gphood]

Replyed to your post on the other forum as well but I'll throw it up here too.

First question would be why are you trying to get detail with white paint? What type of painting are you doing. If you want to acheive highlights you shouldn't be laying white on top you should save your whites. The white in any paint line will give you problems as the pigment is ground larger than any of the other colours. If you really need to do detail the HPB will get you about as fine line as anything you'll buy that will flow white very well, it has a .2mm needle and nozzle your HPC will also work for very nice detail and coems with a .3mm needle nozzle combo.

Hi Clinton

Thanks for the reply. The piece I'm working on at the moment includes images from the film Blade Trinity. I'll post some images up tomorrow when I'm back on my office computer. I've been building up monochrome likenesses of the main characters using white and then taking it back in black but it spattered so much I ended up getting my fine paintbrushes out instead. The textures aren't as smooth as they would be if I'd done the work completely by airbrush but I just can't get it to behave. Maybe I need to completely rethink how I approach this kind of work. In other words, build up the whole silhouette of the face in a light colour - white or otherwise - and then work in the detail with darker colours that will flow through the airbrush better rather than dong the detail in white over a dark background.

I've never really got the hang of fine airbrushing with white and I guess that's at the route of my problem.

[Clinton]

That's exactly how you should work it. Put the white down where you need it, don't get too detailed just lay it in where you need it and make sure to get it bright where it needs to be. Then slowly work your top colours into it, I work in grey scale then tint it out to the colours I need. And if you "Save your whites" you wont need to goi back in with any, if you do it should only be a few soft overreduced highlights.

[gphood]

That's exactly how you should work it. Put the white down where you need it, don't get too detailed just lay it in where you need it and make sure to get it bright where it needs to be. Then slowly work your top colours into it, I work in grey scale then tint it out to the colours I need. And if you "Save your whites" you wont need to goi back in with any, if you do it should only be a few soft overreduced highlights.

Thanks Clinton - I think it'll take some practice but it'll be worth it if it works. I'll start on the Marilyn imags next week and see how they go. I'll take some photos whilst I'm working so you can see how well (or badly) I'm doing :)

[sharonsstudio]

I probably can't help too much.. I can't seem to get whites to spray good either. But I did use Etac white 500 and it sprayed nice but not sure if your doing fabric or paper..

[gphood]

I probably can't help too much.. I can't seem to get whites to spray good either. But I did use Etac white 500 and it sprayed nice but not sure if your doing fabric or paper..

Thanks for taking the time to reply Sharon. I'm working on motorcycle panels mainly although I have some leather work to do over the next few days as well. I'm going to try building my images up differently so I'm not relying on using white for the really fine stuff but working on the negative areas of the design in darker colours instead. I'm also going to start experimenting with different types/brands of pain as well to see if that will help. If I get anywhere I'll post up so you can use the info as well.

[sharonsstudio]

Your Welcome and Thanks!!
I did use etac on a tool box and had to use white for base of flames it worked great and when I cleared it the color brightened..

[gphood]

I've attached photos of the tank I'm working on at the moment which prompted me to start this thread in the first place. I fell back to the handpainting to achieve the very fine detail but it just isn't as smooth as if I'd done most or all of it with an airbrush. I have a couple of faces to add on the sides so I'll have a go at building the image up with grayscales as per Clinton's advice - see how we go.

On another note, I'm considering overlaying some bevelled tribal shapes over some of the flames in the same style as some of Blade's tattoos but I'm wondering if this might mean there'll be too much going on on the tank. Can I have some opinions? Some of the flames are a bit orange as well so I'm going to tone them down with either apple or brandy candy. If there's anything else that people think doesn't quite work I'd appreciate any views, however harsh.

Thanks all for your help so far.

[Cowboy]

Damn , gp. Thats perty damn nice like it is. I think the flame colors are right on colorwise & to Me anything else would take away from Yer Great work. But thats just my opinion. I Love it. Cowboy

[jason prouty]

grant that's cool man,

i use solvant basecoats, with white it needs to be thinned just right and i still don't know exactly how i get there every time, i wing it, usually over 1000% thinned to spray ultra fine and a few passes to build the color up

that's how i roll:wink2:

[gphood]

grant that's cool man,

i use solvant basecoats, with white it needs to be thinned just right and i still don't know exactly how i get there every time, i wing it, usually over 1000% thinned to spray ultra fine and a few passes to build the color up

that's how i roll:wink2:

Hey Jason, thanks for the reply. Do you use a particular brand for your white or just any old basecoat? I've found that House of Kolor behaves better than the standard basecoat that I get from my day-to-day supplier but someone on a UK forum has recommended Standox so I've got some coming in this week. If you use HoK, which reducer would you use? I have a big can of medium but I don't know if that's the best for fine airbrushing or if it even makes a difference but another artist has said thatthe choice of reducer can affect it greatly.

I'm ordering my first set of Auto Air colours tomorrow as well so I'll be experimenting with those this week (whilst trying to finish two large projects in time for the Easter break...)

Cheers for now

[colourshift]

Grant,
Can't help you with the URO stuff, as I don't do em. But when you get your AA, be prepared to be frustrated...it's thick stuff. Way thicker than you're probably used to...and please please tell me you ordered the fast or medium dry reducer...

[ABD]

Lookin sweet so far.....I'm with Jason on the thinning white...I've tried a bunch they all seem to be pretty close in how they act......I always strain 1st...usually bump up the air pressure. (around like 30-40psi, Depending on what i'm doing)..Thin it like crazy..Always seems to be a different mix...I have to shake it a lot too..It's so thin it separates when it sits still..........Just how i work it, don't know if it helps much...Good luck:)

[gphood]

Lookin sweet so far.....I'm with Jason on the thinning white...I've tried a bunch they all seem to be pretty close in how they act......I always strain 1st...usually bump up the air pressure. (around like 30-40psi, Depending on what i'm doing)..Thin it like crazy..Always seems to be a different mix...I have to shake it a lot too..It's so thin it separates when it sits still..........Just how i work it, don't know if it helps much...Good luck:)

Thanks ABD. I am pretty lazy when coming to straining (i.e. I don't do it and I ought to...) What do you use for your straining? Any tips on using cheap houehold items? As I'm making a concerted effort to sort this out it's time to start tackling the basics.

I hadn't thought about shaking it up. It's not really a possibility with the HP-B as it has an open cup, but the C does have a lid on it so I could have a try with that one and see if it makes any difference.

That's a couple more to add to the list of things to try this week so thanks for your contribution :)

[gphood]

Grant,
Can't help you with the URO stuff, as I don't do em. But when you get your AA, be prepared to be frustrated...it's thick stuff. Way thicker than you're probably used to...and please please tell me you ordered the fast or medium dry reducer...

Hi Lynne

I've not ordered it yet so I'll make sure I get the right reducer. I was expecting it to be thick paint as I have heard the stories. A lot of people are producing great work with it though and as the solvent basecoats I've been using for years are being phased out now I need to think about what I'm going to change to. I don't know how easy the new waterbourne paints will be to work with when they do come in so I'd like to be aware of all my options.

[sharonsstudio]

Grant that tank looks great !!! as for a strainer I use old nylons if you don't wear them :D you can pic up a cheap pair at the store..

[jason prouty]

Grant I use PPG basecoats and the white i get is dmd 1684 and reduce with dt 870, Not a great white for covering though, but great for detail,

yep & got to shake it quite a bit or it will settle at the bottom and you'll suck up all pigment away then all you spray is reducer heehee.

i don't strain, just because i change colors so much, that's probly why i go through soooooo many nozzles, crap comes up to the inside of the nozzle, you pull the needle back and pow it gets wedged in between the needle and the nozzle and it cracks or flares it out, i always have a box of those suckers around. can't spray with a slpit nozzle

[ABD]

I mix up a fresh batch for the day....Strain it into a clean squirt bottle and use that till it's gone...Just piece of mind Knowing that my paint is already strained b-4 it ever gets to my AB....I use the paper strainers from the local Auto store when i can...But admit i've gone to the store for Panty hoes and lost a little "Manhood" in doing so...But they do work:)

[jason prouty]

that is a good idea...
ya it would probly save me some money too, I've been paying $11 each for the nozzles

[airarts]

I mix up a fresh batch for the day....Strain it into a clean squirt bottle and use that till it's gone...Just piece of mind Knowing that my paint is already strained b-4 it ever gets to my AB....I use the paper strainers from the local Auto store when i can...But admit i've gone to the store for Panty hoes and lost a little "Manhood" in doing so...But they do work:)

Well, at least you don't have to pick up other items that will effect your "Manhood" :devil-smiley-033: