Siphon or Gravity... ????

[Been]

I have always used siphon style airbrushes. But rescently I have noticed allot of people (especially pro's) using gravity AB's. I know it's a personal preference, but I like the small removable cups (or bottles) for quick color changes. Gravity fed (with perminatly attached cups) seem like it would be more difficult to do quick color changes. Anyone that has used both care to enlighten me?

Which do you use?

And Why?

[purplemyth]

I have a gun now that does both, I don't have much experience with the gravity side yet, it's different cuz the paint is fed faster. My cup is very small so when I get used to it, it will be for small details where only a tiny amount of color is needed .
I like the bottles for now for quick changes and am using alot of one color at one time. Plus it helps me be more steady by having something larger to handle.

But cleaning is still the same on both before switching colors.
just my experience, which aint much, yet~

[Icewolf0927]

Honestly there is good and bad about both of them. Gravity is nice because you don't have to use as much paint but then again you have a cup in the way while you airbrush. Like what you said with a siphon feed you probably can change colors a lot quicker then you can with a gravity feed. When you are changing colors with a gravity feed you have to dump out the paint then run water or some kind of cleaner through it and then add your new paint color. Where as for a siphon you can either attach cleaner or your new color spray a little bit and you are ready to paint again.

The only thing I worry about siphon feeds is I have big hand I would be afraid of knocking the cup off.

Like you said though it comes down to preference and what you like to use.

[Whit]

It's really a matter of application,,,
different applicators for different applications !!!
Siphon feed for larger areas because of the
capacity of the bottle,,, Gravity feed for the
smaller amounts of color for detailing without
the added bulk of a bottle to worry about !!!
Each brush has a use in it's capacity for the
job at hand and over time each brush has an
appreciation for it's specific uses and abilities !!!
A well equiped arsenal will include various
brushes with different capabilities and you will
instinctivly grab the brush you know will work
the best in the application you need it for !!
Have I confused you enough,,, or does this
sorta give you a vague idea on this ???
I can go on,,, and on,,, and on !!!:clapping2:

[Been]

I can go on,,, and on,,, and on !!!:clapping2:

Great explanation Whit!
Uh, care to ellaborate on "each brush has an
appreciation for it's specific uses and abilities"??
Besides the siphon bottle getting in the way.
Been

[redanner]

Been
I need to throw my 2 cents in. You can plug the smaller cups into siphon feed airbrushes. For example Vega 1 ounce cups plug into my Iwata HP BC which is siphon feed. Everybody finds different ways to use tools such as airbrushes. It the artist that make the image or painting.

[Been]

Been
I need to throw my 2 cents in. You can plug the smaller cups into siphon feed airbrushes. For example Vega 1 ounce cups plug into my Iwata HP BC which is siphon feed. Everybody finds different ways to use tools such as airbrushes. It the artist that make the image or painting.

Oh yeah, I know. I have 3 badger 150's, 2 Vega 2000's and just made the jump to Iwata and they all share the same size cups which is cool! :)
Been

[Whit]

A siphon (bottle) type brush has a slight hesitation
between pulling the trigger and paint flow,,, in most
applications,, insignificant,,, in some,, noticable !!!
A gravity feed (cup on top) is almost instantanious
in it's delivery of paint due to the gravity nature and
operates at a lower psi giving you the ability to get
closer to your work for better detail and control !!!
For minute detail,, I've found the SB (side feed) offers
a better ability to see and apply detailing due to the
absence of the top cup,, but that's more a personal
preff than anything,,, but even the SB cups can be
obtained in siphon or gravity action for much the
same reasoning !!! I've got bottle feed atachments
for the SB,, but seems offbalance for me,, so I prefer
the standard siphon brush over the SB in that situation !!
Does this get a lil further in the answer to your question ???

[ABD]

One of the best things i like about me HP-SB (side feed)...When doing the small stuff i just pop in the lil 1/8th cup (think that's the size?)..smallest one anyway.....but it sucks trying to do anything bigger than say yer hand...have to keep refilling after acouple blasts...But with this AB you can pop on like a 2oz bottle and spray for days.hehe!

It's nice to mix up some Kandy or whatever at the start of the project in a bigger bottle..i use my lil cup for lines or whatever..pop in on a bottle for colors...Then right back to my lil cup for more details..Handy and Dandy!!:clapping2: haha!

[Been]

WOW! Whit.... Your a genius! :)
That's exactly what I was looking for! The explanation on fine detail because of the gravity feed and low psi is perfect!
Crap, now I have to figure out how to afford a new AB!
:lol:
Been

[ABD]

Never played with Gravity so i don't know...Whit is the difference that comparable in the detail ability between the 2?...Or is it more user preference and how the paint behaves, but the details achieved can be the same using both?? ...Just curious??

[Whit]

Just for example,,, say a T-shirt,,,
have you ever noticed when doing the
final detail,, say highlites in an eye,, or
the hairline,, any little fine detail,,, that
you concentrate on first the air,, then
slowly pulling back for that hairline flo
that you need to accomplish what you
need ,, only to find you need to pull back
and back,, and then turn away to open it
up by squirting in the air a couple of times
then go back to the tedious task of trying
to hit that hairline again ???
On T's I just use a Paasche (siphon) and
in those cases it becomes very apparent
that there's a hesitation in the paint flo
and the trigger,, ever so slight,, but at times
the paint seems to wait till pressure builds
before it pulls paint from the bottle !!!
A gravity fed brush is there,,, ready or not,,
you got paint,, in whatever quantity you
need,, or don't need,, it's there !!!
And at a lower (controlable) psi as well,,,
it just needs the air to move the paint,,,
not the higher psi to have to PULL paint
from the bottle before it sprays !!!
Other than that they run about the same !!!

[redanner]

Thanks Whit!

I have learned something. I knew about lower presures but never realized there was a hesitation.

[Whit]

Something I think we've all noticed,,
but never thought much about,, but
when you,, say eyelashes,, start the
lash that needs to start here,, end
there,, and you hit it moving and pull,,
but in moving in the direction the eyelash
goes,, you notice the lash did'nt start where
it was supposed to,, but late,, then you've
got to go back and pull it down where it
goes,, that's usually the hesitation that
goes un-noticed,, but it's there,,, with
a gravity feed,, paint is there,, just waiting,,
so,, eliminates the greater part of any of
the hesitation !!! In an eyelash,, a fraction
is noticable,, if you hold position till paint
flows,, you take a chance on blobing the lash,,
then it don't look like hair no more !!!:clapping2:

[Been]

YES! Exactly what I have been looking for! Even the slightest advantage in doing fine detail work. Every little bit counts, literally.
Thanks again Whit!!
Been

[purplemyth]

thanks whit!
I will try my gravity a lil more now. I never knew it needed lower pressure to work better. On siphon I work at around 20.
And I have one of those brushes that has a special purpose, sorta. I had always complained about having to switch needles around in my badgers, though I have 2. The omni matrix hubby got me says its for large areas to fine detail , like fingernails, and has a cup that might hold 20 drops of fluid.It's cool cuz I can spin it under and plug in a cup (oh and they don't fall out! get the plastic lids with plastic hoses, stays tighter also easier to clean) Which would be perfect if you only need a lil highlight on something. Being as I stencil alot, it's good for me.
But I've had problems with it more or less spitting the paint out way to much, now I know! WOOHOO!

[Whit]

Not familiar with the matrix,, but,,
I've got a 4000 and 3000 Omni !!!
Good brushes,, each it's own lil
personalities,, one a gravity and
one a siphon,, always like to be
prepared you might say !!!
This may not be for everybody,, but,,
when I find a good brush,, be it siphon
or gravity,, I'll pair it with the other,,,
I tend to be a creature of habit and
like brushes (even tho different) will
share characteristics in their use !!!
That way when you use one,, you
know what to expect from the other
on the same project !!!

[colourshift]

Just an FYI Been...
I use a spray bottle, set on stream - rather than spray, to flush out my gravity feeds for colour changes...the action of the water help get the paint out fast...I just spray and dump into a near by waste can that always has a lot of paper towels in it anyway. Flush a coupla times with the cleaner of choice that day...and then again with water...a colour change takes me something like 30 seconds.

[Been]

Colourshift!
Yet another great tip!
Thank you. I think that will help me even with my siphon. I recently moved and no longer have a utility sink, so I have to figure out a relatively clean way of cleaning my AB's when the bathroom sink is a room away.
Spray bottle and a bucket, might just work great.
Thanks
Been

[egneg]

As a hobby painter I have slowly made changes over the years. I started with single action (paasche H and badger 200) then I got a duel action paasche vl and then a richpen 113c gravity feed. They all have their uses depending on the application as Whit states. One of these days I may go to one with a smaller needle but as of yet my abilities do not warrant the investment. I have always used the bottle/bucket method for cleaning as I have my setup in the garage.

[jason prouty]

well, i got to git in on this too, i've used siphon for many years and got a gravity a few years back, and i still have a hard time getting use to it, i've never noticed a difference in delay of paint, maybe i'm so used to that i don't notice, but i can do some very fine work with my siphon, the gravity feels very alien to me without the bottle, (i've never been weened off the bottle)

I would have to say personal prerence here, my main reasons for siphon is very frequent color change and i like the feel of it in my hands, i actually caress the bottle as i control my spray. I am interested in trying a side feed, for the reason that i dont like the gravities cup location, it's in my viewing spot

but as far as the difference between the two in spraying, i have found none (that i'm aware of)

[jason prouty]

and i think you see the pro's using them because they are "newer" type brushes, and who wants to be the top dog airbrusher getting caught using and old fashioned tool

[blinddog 99]

Whit has done a pretty complete job of covering the subject a to b. Thanks Whit. One thing I like about gravity feed brushes is subtle color changes on the fly, and extremely small amounts of paint when necessary.

For example, working on a parrot illustration, I need a tiny yellow highlight, working to a darker yellow gradation. I started with my Iwata HP-Cplus, just a couple drops of the yellow, laid most of it down, then added a drop of heavily diluted blue to the cup directly, held my fingers over the needle, and backflushed slightly (takes a little practice) and the tint is in the cup. A couple more edge passes, then a drop of violet, to finish the shading, into the cup, backflush, and the full gradation is done! One wash out, one step...