Black true flames

[Jeroen - CDM]

I want to make black true flames over a white surface....

Is this even possible?

If yes, what paint do I need?

Thx in advance.

[Whit]

Think Smoke,,, with flame charactoristics,, but think Smoke !!!

[Jeroen - CDM]

Thx whit, I found this....

http://www.blogsnel.nl/uploads/j/jeroen27/3071.jpg

[quickdraw]

An old school method is to take an acetylene torch and just light the wick on the acey part and lightly go over the area you want to smoke. Spray light coat of intercoat clear and then add a little color for effect. Interclear that and then clear with topcoat. QuickDraw. (not to be confused with the other Jay.)

[ABD]

that pic you found looks like something Gordon (aerart) did once..Ya might wanna ask him for some tips:)

[redanner]

I want to make black true flames over a white surface....

Is this even possible?

If yes, what paint do I need?

Thx in advance.

Crazy Comart brand of paints have a smoke gray and a translucent black but they are not made for auto. Surely some other company makes the equivalent for auto.

[Sinontin]

use black paint

[Jeroen - CDM]

Thx guys!

Saw the truck toby made....comes pretty close.

Just spoke to Bill, this is his formula...

You would want to reduce the black for some of the work till you reach a transparent. Chromatic black would be the easiest for this and then have 200 Opaque Carbon black. Instead of getting into red, should you, use quinacridone magenta in very small increments and arylide yellow instead of napthol red. That will give you more of a brown black and when you reduce the magenta (very light fast at 8/7 mass/tint using BBWT) it will enhance the black. I am not there of course so you know what you have in mind. Below are the UV information for those colors using British Blue Wool testing standards. 1 is the lowest and 8 is the highest. The number on the left is mass tone and the number to the right of the slash is tint. 1/20th of the mass is the tint used in testing.

Carbon Black 8/8
Titanium White 8/8
Phthalo's (all) 8/8
Quindos 8/7
Arylide 7/6
Naphthol Red Light 6/5
Napthol Red Dark 6/6
Umbers/Oxides 8/8
Azo Orange 6/3
Carbazole Violet 8/7

All mica product or poly/epoxy pigment for Fx are inert to light and have no need in further testing for UV.


Outside of Fl (No need in testing UV for fluorescents) we do not use anything under 6/3 since museum and archival quality is sought with exception to Azo Orange which is 6/3 as there is no replacement for that particular hue. The 8 would be at full strength 8 / 8 would be at 1/20th tint for those colors.

[mob33]

Sinontin is EXACTLY right.
Just take HOK BaseCoat Black and slightly over reduce it to enhance the transparency. Then just lay down a rough "road map" (Mike Lavalee term), VERY loosely at first. After that, use a freehand shield or stencil that you can move around with, and spray some crisper shapes on top of the loose background shapes. THATS IT!
With this style of fire (black fire) you don't have the luxury of going over it with candies and building up different shades that give the illusion of depth, so it will NEVER look like fire, it will look like fire shaped smoke, because of the lack of color.
killerpaint.com has some examples in their gallery, or if you look at my post in this section, its called "Flames and Black fire tailgate" on page 3 I think, maybe 2, I can't remember.
Hope all this jibber jabber helps, and if all else fails, do test panels and lots of 'em
Can't wait to see the progress!
Later,
MOB

[Jeroen - CDM]

Yeah, when I posted this I was hoping for his oppinion. He's great with flames. I'm just a beginner, so have a lot to learn.

Thx everybody!!

[koby]

Just make sure that when you mix up the black that you add some blue to it. If you go back and look at that truck that you did you can see the diffrence. I did the flames with the black and blue mixed paint and did the angel with the black only mixture. The black only will have a brown effect when over reduced. if you add the blue (i used kandy kobalt) it will give it a deeper black with out the brown. Best of luck. you can also take a picture of flames and turn it into gray scale if you have photoshop

[Jeroen - CDM]

Thx koby, good tips!! I have ordered candy 2 days ago. I'll do a test panel, and post it.

[spyder_006]

i tried black flames once....i dont have a pic, but i started just like true fire.....but in black for a first color.....then painted the 2nd layer in silver or gray,i made a kandy gray( i make all my own kandies....except when doing true fire)..and i coated it ...then took the same gray....and didi my highlights,,,,,it looked kool. kinda gray flames.....but just the first layer of black looked awsome, just spray it thin

[boneyard.se]

I know killerpaint has done black true fire so there has to be pics of that.. but more like solid flames... //Tomas

[boneyard.se]

I found it... http://www.garaget.org/?car=51938

btw painted by www.rollesart.se

// Tomas

[Jeroen - CDM]

ok, thx man!! Much apriciated!!

[sharonsstudio]

keep us posted in what you come up with would love to see your work..

[boneyard.se]

Hope it helps CDM, keep us posted :) // Tomas

[Jeroen - CDM]

I first have to call H&S becouse the backside of the infinity won't turn anymore (that controles the amount of paint)

But i still have warranty.

This really sucks though...

[mob33]

Good luck Man!!
Tools goin' down are never fun...always have a back up though..it will save your butt more than once..
Later,
MOB

[Jeroen - CDM]

I pm'd the factory in Germany, but I hear nothing back....

I can call em, but my german is not good....

Soooo...I can't airbrush now, only large masked area's... bummer!!

[AndyW]

Hope you get your brush squared up soon Jeroen.

[Jeroen - CDM]

I just got mail from H&S. They were sorry it was broken, and sent me a new piece today. WHEEEEEEEEE!!

[ABD]

I first have to call H&S becouse the backside of the infinity won't turn anymore (that controles the amount of paint)

But i still have warranty.

This really sucks though...

How the heck did that break I just screws in..Unless the threads got crossed.....I don't use that part to much..So mine doesn't get much abuse....I did notice that mine is blowing air from a piece in the front..Like where you'd wax the threads to prevent air leaks on any other AB..C'ept mines leaking air from a spot that isn't threaded..YIKES!...Never been dropped or beat on..I only noticed it using water base and cleaning it I get water all over..Spotted the bubbles popping out the side.

[Jeroen - CDM]

It woul'dt unscrew anymore. I use it quite often, for better paint flow. I also have the G-mac thingy whehe. But i like the combo of both...

I guess water dryed up time & time over... (from cleaning) There is a metal pin in there that lockes it in place, that's the problem.

P.s. reading ya story....you asking ME 'how the heck' whehehehe LOL

[mob33]

what's wrong with good 'ol Iwata??
Just curious...don't freak out now!!
Later,
MOB

[Jeroen - CDM]

Dunno, never had one mayby? whehehehe

Guess it's about time to try one, ya right! LOL