interesting invention have a good read

[ARTSPRAYJ4J]

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5988527-description.html

check out this unfortunatly i cant find any images of the invention but it sounds great

[Hrvoje]

Here is image:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=kXYYAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=5988527

H

[Jeroen - CDM]

Interesting indeed....but does it actually work?

Has anybody tried this yet?

[ARTSPRAYJ4J]

http://www.google.com/patents?id=kXYYAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=5988527#PPP1,M1

someone found the images as for it actualy working as the saying goese the proof of the pudding is in the eating

i for one would like to try one as i totaly agree with the reasoning behind the invention ie to reduce the required handspeeds for fine detailing

all in all if it doese do what it says on the box it will make useing an airbrush like useing a fine nibbed ilustration pen for detialing

im going to chase this up if i can


paul

[denstore]

I must say I´m doubtful about its use. All such things as extensions and fixed masks create turbulense.

[redanner]

I would hope that this info holds true! I don't think anything works better than endless effort and practice!

[denstore]

I don´t want to be to negative, but the patent date is from 1999. If there were some serious gain from this invention, don´t you think we would have seen some adaptions yet?

I have a background as an engineer, and even if its a long time since I was working as one, I see lots of problems with this. First, to have good control of the turbulense in that chamber would be quite hard. Second, I think the risk of spattering and such will be high. Third, does it work in more than perfect horisontal? How will the bled of "overspray" leave the chamber? By gravity?
How big will the risk of condensation be on the second chamber? Will "rimshots" hitting just at the muzzle edge spin of uncontroled?

The wole apparatus feels like some accuracy enhancing adaption thingy I saw for shotguns many years ago. Just made you think "why didn´t they just make the barrel longer"?

[Chuck732]

It was paint back in 1999 and nothing has been done. About 9 years have gone by and nothing, I don't really think it's going to happen from the looks of it.

[ARTSPRAYJ4J]

yes the i agree where is it ???? it must have had some merit or the inventor would not have bothered with the patent ,ok it may have been looked at by the big airbrush companies tested and dismised it for whatever reason

basicly i posted it just as a point of interest as if it doese do what it says on the box then WOW what leap forward if not then OH WELL never mind LOL

[draggin81]

The basic concept seems like it "should" work, but the more you know about airflow and fluid dynamics, the easier it is to take this apart. Like you're saying, if it worked, the inventor would have found someone to manufacture and market it by now. If it worked well, we'd all have one.
It does bring up some interesting idea's, though. I don't remember the exact number, but I know Edison went through a ridiculous number of prototypes before inventing the incandecent light bulb. Enough to make people think he had lost his marbles. lol.
The guy has the fundamental problem down (the conical shape of the air/paint spray), just needs some tweaking on the "how" phase.
My guess is that something like that might work for a minute, but the thick viscosity of paint would have that thing clogged and spitting in no time.
The reason an airbrush has a conical spray pattern is due to the fact that we're using compressed air. The air is pre-compressed by our compressor, then again in the airbrush, and again in the air cap. The first reaction of the compressed air is to de-compress, which takes it out the only escape, the air hole. The venturi effect takes the paint with it.
The spray spreads into a conical pattern because the air hasn't decompressed all the way, and it's natural tendancy is to continue decompressing until its t the same atmosphereic pressure of the room.
If anyone can figure out a way around that physics problem, I'd be very impressed (and a possible investor. lol)

[ARTSPRAYJ4J]

yes after i viewed the images my first thought was the clogging issue as air flow over paint creats drying, hence the tip dry problems we all know and love so well LOL
it would be nice if it doese work though
unfortunatly airbrushing for detail is always compromise solution ,the head of a Micron is baffled i think this is an atempt to decrompress the air before it hits the atmosphere hence thier ability to fine detail. my olympos SP which is now the top of the range for olympos doese a very nice job of fine detailing and as a bonus they are cheaper than microns ,perhapse the SP is in fact as good as a micron this may explain why olympos dont make microns anymore ??

i do tune my airbrushes and i get some good results but each model will ultimatly spray that little bit differently to the next


the sp is in fact the best detailing airbrush i have due to its ability to draw less paint through whist maintaing a good response its just hell on my tendons due to its short fast trigger but i will be fitting a longer grex one soon

personaly i think Eddy Wouters new needles are the way forward as the a paint regecting surface would allow less material to flow much better at lower air pressure .hopefully eddy will sell the needles for other models of AB so we all benefit from his these developments

paul

[draggin81]

I hope so, too. It wouldn't be feasable to make a needle specifically for each and every AB out there, though. Making some "standard" sizes available that would fit the Iwata HP, Grex, Richpen, Olympos HP100, etc range would at least make it an option for most.
I know he isn't planning on mass producing the "Marissa" brush, as it's become known as. With all of the care and precision he put into that, mass producing it would kill most of those advances anyway.
His main goal was just to see how good of an airbrush could be made, with actually producing them more a side thought than anything. That's the impression I got from him, anyway. I don't want to put words in his mouth. After 10 years, if the man says that thats the best he could possibly make, then I'd be inclined to take his word (although a free test run would be nice. lol)
With technology multiplying itself every year, maybe it will be possible to make a "better" airbrush in a few years time. Who knows whats possible. If the money's there, the innovation (and, unfortunately, snake oil salesmen) are never far behind

[ARTSPRAYJ4J]

dru blair is hopefull that the needle technoligy will trickle down for other AB aplications ,i have looked at teflon but acording to dru eddy tried it and its too soft,im looking at either nitride or tuftride coatings as used on automotive crankshafts and valves its tougher than chrome and paint doesnt like it ,there are plenty of auto tunning specialists and plating firms who can do the work and its not that expensive

hohmi use a hardened needle and its very durable but still not as tough or paint repulsive as either nitride or tuftride coatings

tuftride gives an extremly hard a durable black finnish and nitride a gold finnish


paul

[draggin81]

making the needle harder is easy. AB companies just use different alloys of spring steel. If a harder needle is the goal, you can do that yourself right at home. Just heat the needle until is glowing nice and good, then quench it in some use motor oil.
I wouldn't recommend that, though. But if someone wants to try it, be my guest. Worst case senario you're out a needle and probably a nozzle. And there may be divorce papers filed, depending on your domestic situation. lol.
You could try machining some tungsten to a point, but good luck with that.
I'm sure Eddy could tell you the results of that expiriment. I'm sure he's tried it sometime in the last 10 years.
I'd tend to think Eddy has probably tried almost every material imaginable, but, like they say, the Titanic was built by pros, the Ark was built by an amatuer. lol.
I'm sure they will be making those needles and maybe some nozzles available, at least for microns, to re-coup some of what must have been a pretty tidy investment.
All I know is that he's busy making me a micron (for winning the e'tac contest), so I don't want to bother him with too many questions. lol. And no, mine won't have the full "Marrisa" treatment, but I think I'll make due ;-)