CO2 TANK NEEDS A WATER TRAP , ITS SPITTING

[XZOTIC INK]

LAST WEEK THE TANK WOULD SPRAY FINE,,FOR A bit THAN A strong SPIT WOULD COME OUT,,NOT A SPIT FROM MY GUN,,LIKE A FLUID OF WATER WOULD SHOUT OUT this tank needs a water trap too,,correct?

[denstore]

Have you been spraying with higher pressure than usual? I´ve experienced the same when I have been spraying with too high pressure. Makes the CO2 come out in liquid form.

[shawnsairbrush]

We do have a fellow airbrusher in this forum that sells dive tank stuff maybe drop him an email and he could help you out. voodoo

[shawnsairbrush]

I usually use dive tank and fill it at a dive store. The air is very clean and no moister.
I thing the psi is up around 2500-3000.

[denstore]

The problem is that compressed air doesn´t last as long as CO2. You will never compress it enough to get into liquid form in any normal tanks. For airbrushing, CO2 rules imho.

[shawnsairbrush]

that is true Co2 will last longer. But I was just saying air from a dive store is much cleaner and you wont have the spitting problems.

[denstore]

I doubt the spitting is because of dirty CO2, and even if it would be, it wouldn´t be that expensive to fit a standard moisture trap.
Sure, scuba air is clean, but compared to CO2, it´s usually quite expensive. At least over here.

[shawnsairbrush]

Not sure bout the cost. I think my setup costs around 300-400 and its $5 to fill. I usually get about 3 shirts out of it.(portraits)

[redanner]

CO2 is cheaper also I think! At least it was cheap for my Mig Welder!

[denstore]

I read somewhere that CO2 should be avoided if you normally use more than 45 psi of pressure airbrushing. But the problems of liquid state CO2 would be less if you put an expansion chamber somewhere between the regulator and airbrush.
Paintballers sometimes have this problem, because they use a lot of gas really fast, and sometimes the CO2 makes the guns jam.

About the cost of CO2 compared to scuba air, I would say that CO2 is a little bit cheaper, and to me, the fact that I wont have to fill it so often makes it worth even more. I don´t need to refill more than a couple of times a year. Of course that depends on what you do, but my models and figures are not that big.:)

[shawnsairbrush]

the one thing I know about co2 from paintball is the air pressure is not even from shot to shot. I dont think it would effect an airbrush but it might.The air from co2 in a paintball gun is very inconsistent.

[Full Blast]

Nat.... You shouldnt have any water in your Co2. That would mean somekind of contaminant in the bottle. I dont remember but you should be able to find out if your Tank has whats called a down tube. That means that it has tube inside that actually drops in the Co2. YOu dont want that. Or maybe the bottle is on its side and your getting some "swashing" and your getting liquid Co2 that way. Otherwise the only problem you should be capable of having is freezing the regulator... But thats only if your shooting ALOT! Otherwise you it should be trouble free.

[sweet loretta]

I actually have a moisture trap on my Co2 regulator - too much hassle to take it off - as it's been that way fro a few years now! But it's never captured any moisture.

I 've been told sometimes contamination happen if the Co2 was used for beverages - that has to do with the down tube.
I've read too that Co2 can omit in liquid form but you have to be spraying at 120 psi+.
For sure don't lay that puppy down. And even if you're spraying alot you shouldn't freeze or ice up if all the connections are nice and tight.

[sharonsstudio]

THis is interesting I"ve never tried a co2 air tank.. is it easy to transport and how big would you get for a days worth of work?

[denstore]

THis is interesting I"ve never tried a co2 air tank.. is it easy to transport and how big would you get for a days worth of work?

I think it depends on how much air you use in a days work, but for most people I believe that one tube ought to be enough for one days work.
The one I have is about 3 feet tall and weights about 20kg full (40? lbs). I love it, since I can bring it along wherever I want to work. Don´t need to think about power, and first of all, it´s totally silent.

[CarsonsChaos]

Shouldn't be water in the tank.
Though when they are pressure tested, they fill them with water for the test.
I could see sloshing the tank and introducing liquid CO2 into the line, but I don't think you would ever actually see any drops of it from the brush.
I should instantly evaporate, I wound think before it hit the target.
??????

[voodoopaint]

i have never used co2 --- but I do use my scuba tank setup ---
Its cheap and easy for me cuz I work at a dive shop so I can just fill it any time I need to ----

I have heard about the dip tube thing as was mentioned before though.
some valves have a tube that dips into the tank and causes freezing ,from what Ive heard you could get little ice pellets shooting out the airbrush.

I would say make sure you dont have one of those dip tubes on your valve
and
I bought a regulator/moisture trap on ebay, for about $10-15 , that might solve your problem.

good luck ,

Voodoo

[CarsonsChaos]

Never saw a beverage CO2 tank with a tube and I used to work for a company that tested and filled CO2 tanks.
Not sure why anyone would want a tube in a CO2 tank or if there is such an animal.

[XZOTIC INK]

dam and the list goes on,,lol

well personally i prefer my sil air compressor but you know how that goes,,no outlets,,lol

yep the tank must have some fluid use at one time,,cause it spits and im using pressure only at 30 cause im trying to conserve and make it last,,to refill my tank it cost me 20 bucks,,RIP OFF :bootyshake:

i have to maybe check my tightness of everything ,,that could be causing it,,and its aluminum tank cause the guy said it would be easier for me to carry,,the other ones i couldnt even lift,,lol,,:confused::pishposh:
im so afraid to keep using it outside,,cause when i get a customer i dont want to make a shirt and than it poop out half way through,,,YIKES

ooooo maybe its this,,,i dont turn the tank pressure gauge all the way to fill on,,i keep it very low and than turn my air gauge at 30,,should i turn it all the way on? the gauge that reads how much air is left in tank?

[voodoopaint]

That might work ---
i know with my scuba tank setup, if I dont have the valve open all
the way, when i press the airbrush the pressure drops on the gauge .
I dont really get moisture though ...... .


but im not real sure about co 2 ---- we dont use it here at the dive shop and
I never used it for abing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Airbrush-Compressor-AIR-REGULATOR-Hobby-Craft-Art-Paint_W0QQitemZ200218534656QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2811 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

heres a link to the regulator/moisture trap i was talking about.

I think this would solve your problem.

Good luck!!!

[Shiva]

dam and the list goes on,,lol

yep the tank must have some fluid use at one time,,cause it spits and im using pressure only at 30 cause im trying to conserve and make it last,,to refill my tank it cost me 20 bucks,,RIP OFF :bootyshake:

there should be NO LIQUIDS of water etc in that tank.. NEVER!!!

i have to maybe check my tightness of everything ,,that could be causing it,,and its aluminum tank cause the guy said it would be easier for me to carry,,the other ones i couldnt even lift,,lol,,:confused::pishposh:
im so afraid to keep using it outside,,cause when i get a customer i dont want to make a shirt and than it poop out half way through,,,YIKES

tightness- try a match near the fittings of soapy water-thats safe too.


ooooo maybe its this,,,i dont turn the tank pressure gauge all the way to fill on,,i keep it very low and than turn my air gauge at 30,,should i turn it all the way on? the gauge that reads how much air is left in tank?

turn the tank valve ON to the point it shows pressure, then a bit more HOWEVER it does NOT need to be FULL on.

CO2 is a funny thing.. is it a liquid? sure.. but it freezes almost instantly to a COLD temp.

see here- http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_co2rig.htm

IF the tank DOES have a tube, then you YELL at where you got it from.. IF it was on its side, then you 'sucked liquid' thru the regulator. another NONONO

IF that 'liquid' was to hit YOU or a CUSTOMER, you are in a WORLD OF HURT-
IT FREEZES ANYTHING IT HITS..

also see http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2dynamics.shtml for related issues.

[sweet loretta]

Maybe I misunderstood the question?

Co2 regulators do not show on the gauge how much Co2 is left in the cylinder. a cylinder is weighed empty then full - estimate the amount left. Tricky? Yep but if you pay attention to how many tattoos, shirts or whatever you can do off an XXlb cylinder you get the hang of it.

[kontraktkillah]

Compressed tanks can be aired up to 72 c.i 4500psi if you have a high quality fiber wrapped tank. And have the tank filled at a dive shop off the compressor rather than what alot of shops do is fill off of another diving tank. Where you are lucky to get 2500 psi. Nitro duck is a brand that makes a nice tank. Now as for your CO2 tank have moisture escape. Check on having a ANti-siphon tube installed into the tank and it will prevent moisture from escaping into the brush. And Btw there is no such thing as "dirty" C02. And your Mig welder uses Co2 not Argon Redanner?

[JimmyG]

Kontrak, I use Co2 in my mig welder because it is cheaper, a tank lasts longer and welds about the same as Argon Mixes....I use 100% argon for welding aluminum....

[Bahamut]

The thing about CO2 that sucks is... As you draw the vaporized CO2 off the top of the tank it causes the liquid CO2 to evaporate. ANYTIME you vaporize a liquid it causes a cooling effect. It's the same principle for air conditoners, propane powered freezers and chillers. Therein lies the problem with pressure stability from CO2. As you draw from the tank the liquid vaporization causes some of the liquid to freeze (dry ice). If you draw enough volume from the tank the vaporization process cannot catch up with the freezing and this causes a drop in pressure and causes the tank to sweat further hindering the process. As the CO2 being drawn gets closer and closer to the freezing point you eventually end up drawing a small amount of liquid CO2 into the line. This cause a ton of havoc. Condensation in the mixing chamber of your AB is probably the biggest problem. Along with frozen paint and pigment separation. Bottom line... If you're using CO2 you need to use a big enough tank to compensate for the phase change occouring in the tank. A little 5 LB CO2 canister is NOT big enough to support AB. You need to think about at least a 50 Lb tank.

[flyer615]

Bahamut, I think you just answered a question that I had on another thread (Portable Air?). Are you saying that a small tank(20 oz paintball variety) would not work for airbrush tattoos? I'm not talking about production spraying, just intermittent stuff. I wouldn't want to take a chance on freezing someone's skin.

Ken

[Full Blast]

The thing about CO2 that sucks is... As you draw the vaporized CO2 off the top of the tank it causes the liquid CO2 to evaporate. ANYTIME you vaporize a liquid it causes a cooling effect. It's the same principle for air conditoners, propane powered freezers and chillers. Therein lies the problem with pressure stability from CO2. As you draw from the tank the liquid vaporization causes some of the liquid to freeze (dry ice). If you draw enough volume from the tank the vaporization process cannot catch up with the freezing and this causes a drop in pressure and causes the tank to sweat further hindering the process. As the CO2 being drawn gets closer and closer to the freezing point you eventually end up drawing a small amount of liquid CO2 into the line. This cause a ton of havoc. Condensation in the mixing chamber of your AB is probably the biggest problem. Along with frozen paint and pigment separation. Bottom line... If you're using CO2 you need to use a big enough tank to compensate for the phase change occouring in the tank. A little 5 LB CO2 canister is NOT big enough to support AB. You need to think about at least a 50 Lb tank.

Wow thats all new to me! Cool info there! Ive never used anything smaller than a 20 lb cylander... and that was used heavy all day nver a problem! :D

[Bahamut]

I'm just saying... The more volume of air you draw out of the tank the faster it will freeze on you. With an AB 20 Lb is prob good enuf to overcome the phase change stage. You just need to balance use with time for the tank to recover. Those little CO2 belt thingys are usually used for portable nailers and the like. They use small bursts of CO2 at a time. I think if you strap an AB on it it will work alright for temp tattoos, so long as you don't use it for more than like 30 or 40 sec at a crack. IF you do then the CO2 could possibly be a bit uncomfortable for the person being tattooed, and also you might start having presssure problems.

[sweet loretta]

I am glad for the info on evaporation and cooling effect. It helps to have a better understanding on what tools and equipment I use.

I airbrush and have for many year quite a few tattoos. I use 20, 10 and on a rare occasion 5lb cylinders. I pride my self in safe practice. And I have never froze anyone yet. No matter the size the only time it feels really cold is on very hot dry days when temps are at about 105+ or in air conditioned cold rooms such as at 3am in a bowling alley for Grad Night.

So I get the science behind it, and I'll keep some notes and a close watch but for now I have to disagree. Most AB Tattoo artists use 20lbs, I am one of the few I know who keeps a moisture trap on my Co2. I know many of the top artists in the business and none I know have a freezing problem.

I do agree that for serious work one should go larger.